"backing it in" advice.

[steveh]

Okay, ive got a ccm 604 motard and i cant seem to get the back end out coming into a corner, im just after a little advice from you kind folk

i know the Ccm isnt the lightest of bikes, and i certainly dont wanna be highsiding.


cheers, Steve.
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Current : 06 Zx10r, 07 Wr450f SM, 74 850 norton commando, 63 bsa b40, 1962 Triton 650, 67 Triumph Tr6r, 1955 Triton 750, 1978 TY250E.

[Sparks!]

I love these threads.... don't practice it on the road thats for sure.. get to some track days, learn to go fast and then get faster and faster and before long you'll be going fast enough to actually back it in properly.

IF you really must... then go set up some cones in a empty car park and learn there, my mate can back his WR426 in really well but not so sure he'd do it on the road altho hes done it at industrial estates ....
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[steveh]

yeah, ive got no problem with the slide issue, its just getting the fucker out, i may not be going fast enough, or dumping the clutch early enough.

all i do, is shift my weight, roll off, prolly from 3rd down to first and dump it coming into the corner, but it just seems to bounce about abit, ove a few inch then gain grip again.

gona look a rignt nobber with some cones attatched to the back of my bike
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Current : 06 Zx10r, 07 Wr450f SM, 74 850 norton commando, 63 bsa b40, 1962 Triton 650, 67 Triumph Tr6r, 1955 Triton 750, 1978 TY250E.

[Sparks!]

Go faster
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[MarJay]

Backing it in on a track is to compensate for the handling deficiencies of the bike at high speed, for example Garry McCoy on the Yamaha MotoGP bikes of the mid nineties.

Backing it in on a Supermoto, is usually done in the dirt areas of the track, and is often part of controlling the speed of the bike, and so I would not be surprised if it is not normally initiated by the rear brake.

However, as Sparks! Said, now isn't the best time to start really, and I would suggest trying it on an off road bike on some soft ground first.

I've seen G do it on one of his Supermotos, but as said, he didn't back it in using the power (which is the usual definition of backing it in!) he used the rear brake and slid the bike up to a roundabout.

G has also crashed a fair bit on the road too, so I wouldn't be surprised if he goes a bit past where most people consider to be 'safe' on the odd occasion! I also get the impression that your technique of dumping the clutch isn't the best way to do it as it doesn't achieve controllable slide, it just makes the rear wheel skip about.

I would say that the slide either needs to be wholly back brake related, or entirely a powerslide. And as said, I would say that practicing on diesel strewn roundabouts in November is asking for trouble!
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Sparks!]

Backing it in for supermoto is usually done on tarmac ....thats the whole idea of it, you can go faster if you slide around certain corners.. and most learn it because it looks cool

I think initiating the slide with the rear brake is sometimes acceptable, but ONLY for breaking the back loose... I can sometimes drift my CBR which I start by using rear brake to skid, leanin over then wacking the throttle on... some times I powerslide, most the time I spin around 540 on the spot and get flung off the bike

If you're aiming to back it in on tarmac then definetly learn on tarmac, but in an area you can happily crash!

I'm not an expert on backing it in, but its pretty much the same as drifting ... idea is to get the back end loose then wack the power on to make it slide
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[lilredmachine]

I believe the idea is to use the engine braking of that big ol' Rotax motor. On smaller (125 sort of size) and 2 stroke bikes it's near impossible without using the rear brake as they just don't have the balls to control the speed of the rear wheel.

Fly up to a corner, close throttle, click it down one or two too many gears, drop clutch to about half movement (DO NOT DROP IT ALL THE WAY, it will lock and you'll release as a natural action, you'll highside and eat tarmac) to break the rear wheel loose, then mediate clutch so that rear wheel is rolling slower than it should but without locking, and you should be sliding but with enough control over the rear as to not go rolling backwards into a ditch.

That is a simple explanation, there are many other points. The actual technique is a method of braking that allows you to 'brake' way late and right up to the apex without lowsiding, using the slide to scrub off speed. The idea is to select the right gear for the corner so that as the bike brakes to the rear wheel speed and the wheels come back in line you are at the apex and leant over, ready to tag the apex and hit the throttle.

It's dodgy on the road as you don't want a surface change/fluid spill/patch of gravel/wet leaves to change the level of grip as you are sliding, that will fuck you up. It is also easy to misjudge the gear to be in, you could end up missing the apex and sliding into oncoming traffic.

[G]

I should point out that I don't initiate a slide with the rear brake - I suspect that could lead to a fair bit less controlled slide.

I initiate a slide by dropping it down a gear or two, then use the rear brake to keep it sliding.
I suspect rear brake is needed more for me as I'm generally not doing it with that much lean, ie going into the work carpark etc. This presumably means the rear tyre is more likely to be trying to grip and get the engine speed up, rather than keep on sliding.

As lilredmachine, I've always seen backing it in done with the engine spinning slower than the road speed. If you're very good, you can then link that with getting on the power midcorner to keep it sliding as you come out.


So...
First off, find somewhere safe to play.

Always cover the clutch and be ready to use it.

Come up to the corner in your desired gear.

It will help if you're braking fairly hard initially to unload the rear. However this is more to think about and I've managed to get the rear sliding a little bit without this on most bikes (including sportsy bikes).

As you turn in, knock the gears down one or two.

As required, use the rear brake (with some finesse ) too try and keep the engine speed a set amount below the road speed.