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The Scale of the Universe

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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 17 Oct 2010    Post subject: The Scale of the Universe Reply with quote

This'll fry your noodle....

https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347

GhostRider
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Gone
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 17 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer my noodles boiled, but that is a bit on the large side.
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Black Knight
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 17 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good, was hoping for a comedy ending though with his giant nob at the end spanning the universe!
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SoND
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 17 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Click here for fullscreen
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 18 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s things like this that make me think….with a universe so large, with entire galaxies that dwarf ours scattered liberally, I find the possibility of there being no other life in the universe a ridiculous notion. I’m not sure if I’m barking up the wrong tree, but surely if the outer edges of the known universe are 93,000,000,000 light years away, and given that the picture we are seeing is that old, then essentially whatever resides on those outer edges is 93,000,000,000 light years ahead of us (I know it’s a distance in essence), and since what we know about world, the universe and the physics that order it has only been gleaned within the last 2000yrs or so, is it really that far-fetched to think that somewhere that has had 500,000+ years of evolution more than us would come up with a way to warp space-time, master worm holes, harness the power of black holes etc?

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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 18 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostRider wrote:
It’s things like this that make me think….with a universe so large, with entire galaxies that dwarf ours scattered liberally, I find the possibility of there being no other life in the universe a ridiculous notion. I’m not sure if I’m barking up the wrong tree, but surely if the outer edges of the known universe are 93,000,000,000 light years away, and given that the picture we are seeing is that old, then essentially whatever resides on those outer edges is 93,000,000,000 light years ahead of us (I know it’s a distance in essence), and since what we know about world, the universe and the physics that order it has only been gleaned within the last 2000yrs or so, is it really that far-fetched to think that somewhere that has had 500,000+ years of evolution more than us would come up with a way to warp space-time, master worm holes, harness the power of black holes etc?

GhostRider


Makes one think.

The way I see it is to say this little tiny planet lost among the millions in our own galaxy, which itself is lost among the millions of other galaxies, is the only one out there to habour life then it is a very selfish and narrow minded view of the universe in general.

We hear constantly about certain conditions needed to form life. What they are talking about is certain conditions needed to form carbon based life which earth life is. I think thats a misguided conception and also narrow minded.

I agree with you on the light year/ distance/ time thing too. The further we look into space the further back we are looking in time. Looking at a planet thats 5 billion light years away is looking at a planet that is how it was 5 billion years ago. For all we know life could have evolved since then. Bearing in mind we can see around 13 billion years into the past with the hubble deep space telescope.

When you think in terms of scale like that and then add the fact that life on earth is an estimated 3.5 billion years old from the first bacteria to the present day it puts the possibility of life on other worlds in a new light.

Since the industrial revolution in the 1800's the human race has moved forwards in leaps and bounds with their machines and technologies. We can go from the steam locomotive to a space exploration to the point of sending drones to our neigbouring planets and satilites out of our own solar system in 200 years, what could we do with 2000 years, or 2 billion?

Life exists somewhere other than earth and the reason we havent found it yet is because what we can see is too far into the past and life hasnt formed there yet.
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Inkognito
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 18 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pinky i think you're right but i also think that whatever we need to do we should do it within 2000 years as i don't see us being able to live on this planet the way things are going Razz

Honestly i can see this planet torn apart within 500 years to be honest. Ozone layer gone. Planet depleted of natural resources. Population too big for the earth to support Razz

I may be a "glass is half empty" kind of guy but if we havent managed to setup camp on a different planet in the next few hundred years i can see evolution starting all over as we've slowly killed the planet and the environment that keeps us alive.
I just hope someone manages to setup a satellite to record the dinosaurs reborn so the next generation can see the stuff we didn't Razz
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 18 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

TwoSock wrote:
Pinky i think you're right but i also think that whatever we need to do we should do it within 2000 years as i don't see us being able to live on this planet the way things are going Razz

Honestly i can see this planet torn apart within 500 years to be honest. Ozone layer gone. Planet depleted of natural resources. Population too big for the earth to support Razz

I may be a "glass is half empty" kind of guy but if we havent managed to setup camp on a different planet in the next few hundred years i can see evolution starting all over as we've slowly killed the planet and the environment that keeps us alive.
I just hope someone manages to setup a satellite to record the dinosaurs reborn so the next generation can see the stuff we didn't Razz


I agree. We are killing this planet. I remember watching the matrix and I had one of them "moments". Agent Smith has Morpheus cuffed in a chair and his speach put the human race into the correct catagory.

Agent Smith wrote:
I'd like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species, and I realised that humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern... a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer on this planet, you are a plague,


While he may not be correct in his classification of the species he's hit our actions on the head!
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Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 18 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:


I agree. We are killing this planet. I remember watching the matrix and I had one of them "moments". Agent Smith has Morpheus cuffed in a chair and his speach put the human race into the correct catagory.

Agent Smith wrote:
I'd like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species, and I realised that humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern... a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer on this planet, you are a plague,


While he may not be correct in his classification of the species he's hit our actions on the head!


I also thought Agent Smiths monologue was rather apt.

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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am positive other life exists in the universe. I think if you are of a Darwinian mindset and don't see anything unique or mystical about the evolution of life then it's ridiculous to think otherwise.

The question of whether any other species has got massively advanced technology is interesting though. Given that the experience of this planet is that advancement leads to negative impacts on the environment and weapons capable of decimating life I suppose there is the question of whether there is a natural limit after which species tend to wipe themselves out. You also have the issue of the finite lifetime of any planet and the timescales needed both for the evolution of intelligent life and then for the development of technology.

Makes you wonder if humans will develop a sufficient level of technology to leave this planet before one of these natural barriers are met. That said we only have the example of our species and our planet, maybe things are different elsewhere.

In addition to those natural barriers it's also not impossible that some things just can't be done with any level of technology. For example if we can't break the light barrier then we are pretty much doomed to occupy a very very small and insignificant part of the universe or become spacefaring nomads with generations of people never living outside of a spacecraft.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll make a serious post debating that ^^^ on the morrow but I'll leave the topic for tonight with a little silliness

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Glenben92
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Martay
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

my mind has died

...
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

T0MMY wrote:
I am positive other life exists in the universe. I think if you are of a Darwinian mindset and don't see anything unique or mystical about the evolution of life then it's ridiculous to think otherwise.

The question of whether any other species has got massively advanced technology is interesting though. Given that the experience of this planet is that advancement leads to negative impacts on the environment and weapons capable of decimating life I suppose there is the question of whether there is a natural limit after which species tend to wipe themselves out. You also have the issue of the finite lifetime of any planet and the timescales needed both for the evolution of intelligent life and then for the development of technology.

Makes you wonder if humans will develop a sufficient level of technology to leave this planet before one of these natural barriers are met. That said we only have the example of our species and our planet, maybe things are different elsewhere.

In addition to those natural barriers it's also not impossible that some things just can't be done with any level of technology. For example if we can't break the light barrier then we are pretty much doomed to occupy a very very small and insignificant part of the universe or become spacefaring nomads with generations of people never living outside of a spacecraft.


I think quantum-physics has found enough clues that bending time/space will be possible.

As for the survival of our species, we're on the teetering edge of failing or finding free energy and a way to control our population. I think it goes without saying that other civilisations have reached the critical point with a comfortable margin, while others have failed completely. We just happen to be one that's played it right to the edge with no sure indication which way it'll finally go. I think our doom will be that we never found a way to have anyone other than the worst scum to be in charge.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:



As for the survival of our species, we're on the teetering edge of failing or finding free energy and a way to control our population. I think it goes without saying that other civilisations have reached the critical point with a comfortable margin, while others have failed completely. We just happen to be one that's played it right to the edge with no sure indication which way it'll finally go. I think our doom will be that we never found a way to have anyone other than the worst scum to be in charge.


As threatened last night my serious post!

I would have to agree with the master of debate here, Hetzer. We humans have pushed the limits of this planet pretty much as far as it will go and are now left trying to back pedal at the last minute to find either a cure or a solution. Sadly I dont think any will be forthcoming.

Taking Hetzers suggestion that some civilizations have reached the critical point of their planets tolerances and adapted while some have, for want of a better phrase, crashed and burned. I think the human race is doomed to follow the latter.

The human race by its very nature is a destructive race and we will end up destroying ourselves before we can reach the level of technology that will enable us to explore far off worlds to see if there is anything else out there. I'm not suggesting for one minute that the human race will vanish from the planet but I can see a return to the stone age days within the next 10 thousand years.

With more and more of our life depending on systems and machines and given the nature of the human race as I have already said. We will find the means for our own self destruct before we find a way out.

Add to the fact that I think nature itself is a ballance restorer. I'm not talking mother nature hippy shit. More a case of look at the facts. The weather is getting more and more extreme, fair enough a lot of this is the fault of the humans. There has been an increase in natural disasters, from earthquakes to floods. I think its just the planets way of restoring the natural ballance of things.

Take that tsunami that happened a few years back in asia. Killed thousands and wiped out towns and cities. What was devastation on an epic scale is now trees and plants now pumping more oxygen into the atmosphere. Is it so far fetched to believe that this is the planets way of restoring the natural order and combating the damage that has been done already.
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Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Hetzer wrote:



As for the survival of our species, we're on the teetering edge of failing or finding free energy and a way to control our population. I think it goes without saying that other civilisations have reached the critical point with a comfortable margin, while others have failed completely. We just happen to be one that's played it right to the edge with no sure indication which way it'll finally go. I think our doom will be that we never found a way to have anyone other than the worst scum to be in charge.


As threatened last night my serious post!

I would have to agree with the master of debate here, Hetzer. We humans have pushed the limits of this planet pretty much as far as it will go and are now left trying to back pedal at the last minute to find either a cure or a solution. Sadly I dont think any will be forthcoming.

Taking Hetzers suggestion that some civilizations have reached the critical point of their planets tolerances and adapted while some have, for want of a better phrase, crashed and burned. I think the human race is doomed to follow the latter.

The human race by its very nature is a destructive race and we will end up destroying ourselves before we can reach the level of technology that will enable us to explore far off worlds to see if there is anything else out there. I'm not suggesting for one minute that the human race will vanish from the planet but I can see a return to the stone age days within the next 10 thousand years.

With more and more of our life depending on systems and machines and given the nature of the human race as I have already said. We will find the means for our own self destruct before we find a way out.

Add to the fact that I think nature itself is a ballance restorer. I'm not talking mother nature hippy shit. More a case of look at the facts. The weather is getting more and more extreme, fair enough a lot of this is the fault of the humans. There has been an increase in natural disasters, from earthquakes to floods. I think its just the planets way of restoring the natural ballance of things.

Take that tsunami that happened a few years back in asia. Killed thousands and wiped out towns and cities. What was devastation on an epic scale is now trees and plants now pumping more oxygen into the atmosphere. Is it so far fetched to believe that this is the planets way of restoring the natural order and combating the damage that has been done already.


I Suppose you'd have to kind of subscribe to the Gaia theory to think that the earth was concious of itself in order to make a purposeful effort to re-establish an equilibrium. Not sure if I believe that the Earth purposefully created an earthquake in the middle of the Indian Ocean knowing that the resulting Tsunami would wipe out a, lets face it, miniscule proportion of the problem.

Quote:


For example if we can't break the light barrier then we are pretty much doomed to occupy a very very small and insignificant part of the universe or become spacefaring nomads with generations of people never living outside of a spacecraft.


Breaking the light barrier might not be necessary, I was reading a book by reknowned physicist Michio Kaku called "Physics of the impossible", and whilst I have no doubt it's diluted down for the layperson, the basic jist was that there is nothing in the world of physics as we currently know it that says that makes things like wormholes possible....I think the limiting factor was energy required, we certainly wouldn't be able to achieve it using earth based energy generation techniques (fossil fuels/nuclear power etc).

I'm sure if they stopped pumping billions into efforts to rape and pillage other countries for their resources, and just generally exterminating people, and instead flooded that money and energy research, they would come up with ways to use the Sun as a primal energy source or something such, at least getting us one step closer to intergalactic travel.

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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:

I think quantum-physics has found enough clues that bending time/space will be possible.


I agree with you here Shocked Laughing although whether it's possible and whether it's achievable are two different things and I wouldn't like to comment either way as we don't know exactly what might be required or what hurdles might appear.

Quote:
Breaking the light barrier might not be necessary...


Sorry, to clarify, I meant travelling quicker than light can, not necessarily achieving velocities greater than light speed (which seems less likely than bending space by some method to shorten distances).

It does seem like energy is our biggest problem, however given the amount of energy bound up in matter it does just seem a matter of time before we find some highly efficient way of releasing it (anti-matter reactions or controllable nuclear fusion or whatever) that will make us look back on our fossil fuel concerns as hilarious.

Question is how long will it take... If we hit a genuine energy crisis before we get near that point would we ever actually get there?
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

T0MMY wrote:
Hetzer wrote:

I think quantum-physics has found enough clues that bending time/space will be possible.


I agree with you here Shocked Laughing although whether it's possible and whether it's achievable are two different things and I wouldn't like to comment either way as we don't know exactly what might be required or what hurdles might appear.

Quote:
Breaking the light barrier might not be necessary...


Sorry, to clarify, I meant travelling quicker than light can, not necessarily achieving velocities greater than light speed (which seems less likely than bending space by some method to shorten distances).

It does seem like energy is our biggest problem, however given the amount of energy bound up in matter it does just seem a matter of time before we find some highly efficient way of releasing it (anti-matter reactions or controllable nuclear fusion or whatever) that will make us look back on our fossil fuel concerns as hilarious.

Question is how long will it take... If we hit a genuine energy crisis before we get near that point would we ever actually get there?


The conspiracy theorist within me believes that just as the last drops of oil are converted to exhaust fumes, a "miracle" cold-fusion esque breakthrough will be achieved, with running/operational and most importantly, profit, matching closely to what oil was previously. Even the scum at the top of the chain can't prosper without fuel, and cannot control the masses who are rioting due to a complete breakdown of transportation due to lack of fuel, therefore I'm don't really believe they would sit back and watch it crumble in front of their eyes without having an Ace in the hole.

Whether this alternative will provide the required energies I mentioned previously, who knows, I doubt the goverment are genuinely interested in populating other planets anyway, they've got it far too sweet on this one. Which is kind of why I do hold a glimmer of hope that extraterrestrials will come and either exterminate us or be our saviours. Either way it will add some excitement to our otherwise mudance existence on this rock Laughing

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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostRider wrote:

The conspiracy theorist within me believes that just as the last drops of oil are converted to exhaust fumes, a "miracle" cold-fusion esque breakthrough will be achieved, with running/operational and most importantly, profit, matching closely to what oil was previously. Even the scum at the top of the chain can't prosper without fuel, and cannot control the masses who are rioting due to a complete breakdown of transportation due to lack of fuel, therefore I'm don't really believe they would sit back and watch it crumble in front of their eyes without having an Ace in the hole.

Whether this alternative will provide the required energies I mentioned previously, who knows, I doubt the goverment are genuinely interested in populating other planets anyway, they've got it far too sweet on this one. Which is kind of why I do hold a glimmer of hope that extraterrestrials will come and either exterminate us or be our saviours. Either way it will add some excitement to our otherwise mudance existence on this rock Laughing

GhostRider


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blurredman
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

My noodle is not even singed looking at this.
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems unlikely that extraterrestrials would come to Earth given the number of hurdles.

You would need a species technologically advanced enough to travel interstellar distances but more importantly they would have to know we were here. I guess the earliest sign of our existence detectable from space would be radio signals transmitted 100 years ago or so and they would have spread a very insignificant distance by now.

Without us ourselves overcoming the light barrier then however advanced another species is they would still need to travel into our sphere of detectability to become aware of us. The odds of that happening given the vastness of the universe and the possible rarity of very advanced species are probably quite small.

That works both ways of course in terms of us finding other intelligent life in the future (which is a bit depressing) although who knows how the picture may change with advancing technology and maybe there will be new ways to detect activity on distant planets.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

T0MMY wrote:
Seems unlikely that extraterrestrials would come to Earth given the number of hurdles.

You would need a species technologically advanced enough to travel interstellar distances but more importantly they would have to know we were here. I guess the earliest sign of our existence detectable from space would be radio signals transmitted 100 years ago or so and they would have spread a very insignificant distance by now.

Without us ourselves overcoming the light barrier then however advanced another species is they would still need to travel into our sphere of detectability to become aware of us. The odds of that happening given the vastness of the universe and the possible rarity of very advanced species are probably quite small.

That works both ways of course in terms of us finding other intelligent life in the future (which is a bit depressing) although who knows how the picture may change with advancing technology and maybe there will be new ways to detect activity on distant planets.


Why on earth would you think a species advanced enough to bend space/time would be limited to radio-waves as a means of detecting other civilisations? They could have a scanner that plugged into their space/time bender and all planets in the universe with atomic-energy technology would light up on the display-panel.

To such species this universe is probably like a back yard, much like our planet is to us now just a 'global village'.
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I say that because as far as we are currently aware, nothing travels faster than light and therefore even if something made us detectable at the point of our evolution it still wouldn't have travelled that far by now.

The point is the information has to get from us to them so it's OUR technology that's important, not theirs.

Obviously (and as I said in my post) that may change but that's how it looks at the moment so there's no reason to suppose otherwise as yet.
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Hetzer
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

T0MMY wrote:
Well I say that because as far as we are currently aware, nothing travels faster than light and therefore even if something made us detectable at the point of our evolution it still wouldn't have travelled that far by now.

The point is the information has to get from us to them so it's OUR technology that's important, not theirs.

Obviously (and as I said in my post) that may change but that's how it looks at the moment so there's no reason to suppose otherwise as yet.


We're probably radiating all kinds of energies of which we're not even remotely aware, ones detectable in all kinds of ways, at all kinds of 'distances' and 'speeds'. Maybe all an advanced species needs to do is stick an antenna into it's wormhole and it automatically picks up those energies and traces a route to their source.

You really can't think in human-technology terms when hypothesising about the stuff above. Basically you can make up the most outlandish ideas and probably find they're accurate, somewhere. Them to us are most likely like we are to ants. Kand uv ting, innit. Bro.

They're probably watching us on wormhole TVs and crying with laughter. Or just crying probably.
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that it might be hard to predict what technologies another species might have although I still believe the laws of physics would have to apply.

Obviously you can hypothesise any level of technology at all but personally I don't see the point unless there's some reason to suspect it could happen.
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