HONDA CB 125 SUPERDREAM - yay or nay?? ASAP HELP PLEASE!!

[badas]

possibility that i may be buying one tomorrow, first of all it has half a year tax and MOT left, all working fine so the seller says but will have the chance to see it before i buy it....

comes with alot of spares, 2 engines etc etc £200 of spares really...

i did own a honta mtx 125, sold that due to faults and now would like another 125 just to put me on to get too and from work etc, the buyer wants £550,

is it worth my buying it?

what should i look out for in this perticular bike?

i am 6ft 5 so would it be an absolute pain to ride?

thanks

[N cee thirty]

might aswell buy it,if it went tits up you could sell everything and maybe make more back





don't tell teflon mike though... he already has 7 ? cb's ¬_¬
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[badas]

cheers guys just goign through insurance quotes at the moment.. its a little odd as if i change it from me saying ive made two claims (only one came off my policy) to 1 claim (as ive only ever had one of them effect my policy) i have a price difference of £20??

so if i say i have made 2 claims insurance charge me £203,

for 1 claim its £250....


how does that work?

what should i be looking out for if i go get this bike?

it will be my first time going to buy a bike by myself.

cheers

[N cee thirty]

insurance is stupid sometimes with all the databases they havnt a clue

look out for the usual,oil leaks,unhealthy noises from the engine,dodgy wiring,bodges

make sure he's started it from cold to make sure its not hard of starting
____________________
'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[badas]

yup, what should i be checking in the V5?

make sure frame / engine numbers match up with the logbook etc?

thanks

[N cee thirty]

hmm well he has 2 spare engines for a reason so you never know if one of them will match up,make sure the frame matches though

try and haggle him down on the price,worth a try
____________________
'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[badas]

Yeah i already tried on the phone but it he's already gone down by £100 from original wanted price...

Should i be concerned over the fact i am practicly getting 3 engines?

And where abouts would the endine number be located on the cb 125's?

Cheers mate appreciate it

[N cee thirty]

lol well you've got 1 out of 3 chance of one of thm working so with all the spares if one fails you'll be able to sort it pretty fast

hmm not sure,but if its like the cg it'l be on the bottom under from the gearchanger lever
____________________
'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[badas]

ok so if the V5 matches the frame number but the engine in the frame doesn't what should i be doing?

walking away with my money still in my wallet?

cheers

[Teflon-Mike]

Right £550 is on the expensive side for an old CB125 Super-Dream.
At that price is ought to be taxed tested and ready to ride away.
Should also be all there, be pretty original, and very tidy.
Should start easily, and idle quietly, with no smoke. Should rev cleanly and pull readily to an indicated 60 on the speedo.
will do 70+ but will take a bit more room. To 60 they are pretty spritely. If it struggles then it has problems.
Spares normally mean 'scrap', and why would you want them?
If the bike's worth £500+, you would bloody well expect the engine to be good and not need replacement!
And they are only worth anything (about £100 each) IF they work, and if they aren't in the bike, how do you know that they aren't Do-Do's with worn bores or knackered mains, that aren't worth squat?
(But if you get it, I migt be able to find a use for them if not so great, I have two than I need to rebuild, and one that has a duffed bottom end!)
Things to look for, copied from something else I was working on:-
Brakes:-
The CB125TD-C was remarkable on its launch for a very powerful, twin piston, floating calliper front disc brake. Now usual on most bikes, at the time, disc brakes were the preserve of the more sporty models. Most commuter bikes sufficing with drum brakes, and many smaller capacity machines, with disc brakes having only marginally more effective, mechanical, cable operated callipers, not proper hydraulic brakes. But even then, a lot of bikes, and certainly the ones in the 125cc class, like Yamaha’s RD125LC or Kawasaki’s AR125LC, had only single piston callipers, where the little ‘Super-Dream’ had a state of the art, twin piston calliper, not seen on a lot of bigger bikes. These are also a very robust version of the Nissin calliper used by Honda still. However, as all brake callipers, they live in a hostile environment, and are prone to corrosion, and need periodic maintenance to prevent them seizing, and neglected the chrome pistons will rust and pit, demanding replacement of the pistons and seals. As the pistons tend to be fairly expensive (about £20 each) having two, makes this calliper twice as expensive to fix properly when the pistons have ‘gone’.
The rear brake is very effective, conventional, rod operated, drum brake, comparable to those of its peers, almost up to the models demise in 1991, when the RD125’s successor, the TZR125, first gained a read disc-brake.
Steering:-
The CB125TD-C was originally fitted with ‘cup & ball’ steering bearings. These are loose balls in a circular track, sandwiched by a second circular track, and are predominantly designed to resist loads end on to the shaft they support. These are more than adequate, and have a few advantages over more modern ‘taper-roller’ bearings which are conical rollers sandwiched between two chamfered rings, which are designed to resist loads both end on to the shaft and side on to the shaft they support. These bearings offer much better support for the steering, and can resist much more load, so don’t offer as much free movement, as well as needing less frequent adjustment, and usually lasting longer. Until recently, though the accuracy they had to be made to was a lot harder to achieve and they were far more expensive than cup-and ball bearings. Now however, the disparity is that much smaller, and there is little reason to use cup-and ball bearings where a taper-roller fitment is available.
Front Suspension:-
The CB125TD-C has conventional telescopic forks at the front, but with a usefully large 31mm diameter stanchion. That was a similar diameter to its peers like the RD125 or AR125, and the same diameter as the modern CBR125. For comparison, the CG125 uses a spindly 27mm stanchion. Hydraulically damped, (With ATF automatic gearbox oil, as standard) there is nothing ‘special’ about the CB125’s forks, apart from they work very well, and are very easy to service, or repair, and there is little excuse for them not to work wonderfully. Most though don’t, because they work well enough most people never give them a second thought until the seals ‘go’. Like all telescopic forks though, their Achilles heel is rust, and pitting on the chrome fork stanchions, which if particularly bad, demands their replacement, or re-chroming. As they need a special, ‘hard-chrome’ with precision ground surface, this can be expensive, typically around £150 for a pair of forks. If new stanchions are available, are often cheaper than re-chroming. Unfortunately, for the CB125TD, though they aren’t, meaning if the forks are bent or the chrome too badly pitted or flaked to be serviceable, the only recourse is better second hand replacements.
Rear Suspension:-
The CB125TD-C’s rear suspension is by multi-link, rising rate, ‘mono-shock’. Like the twin-piston front brake, this was state of the art sports-bike technology when the model was launched, and more advanced than the rival RD125 whose mono-shock was a simple fixed rate cantilever arrangement. This gave the little Super-Dream, very sure handling for a bike of its era, and is barely bettered by the contemporary CBR125. It is certainly far superior to the under-damped, ‘twin-shock’ rear suspension of the CG125 and other commuter bikes, including the contemporary CBF125 and YBR125. But, only when its well looked after, and few are. The multi-link arrangement has a lot of mechanics between the swing-arm and the shock absorber, and used hard, these wear, making the suspension sloppy and soggy, and often lowering the bikes back end, making the forks tilt backwards making steering ‘lazy’, resulting in a less than inspiring ride. But again, working so much better than usual commuter fare to begin with, few stop to consider this actually a ‘fault’. Left derelict, the joints don’t wear, they seize, which is probably just as bad. They need frequent attention, and servicing. This need not be too onerous, merely a periodic inspection and greasing, and early models, to aid such attention actually have grease nipples on the swing-arm pivots and the lower-link pivot, though that’s only three out of about eight joints! And if there is severe wear in the rear suspension linkage, it can be horrendously expensive to put to rights. Most of those joints have ‘split’ bushes in them, and they are around £8 each, making it £16 per joint. Times six. And if the inner sleeves also need replacing, it’s a lot of money. Mono-shock suspension units are also expensive to replace if they have lost damping effect. New, standard, replacements are around £80 (compared to roughly £40 for a similar pair of ‘twin-shocks’ for a conventional commuter) More sophisticated, ‘adjustable’ units, can be any tree times that price.
Wheels & Tyres:-
The CB125TD-C got Honda’s second generation ‘com-star’ style alloy wheel. Unlike a spoked wire wheel, this uses metal plates bolted between the wheel rim and the wheel hub, rather than wire spokes laced between them. Made of aluminium, it provides for a lighter, stronger wheel, which still has some ‘compliance’ in it, unlike a solid cast wheel. This was an important feature at the time, when cast alloy wheels were prone to cracking or fatigue fracture. Again, they were state of the art, but more importantly, they were a lot more stylish than the more functional looking earlier versions. They take 18” tubed tyres front and back, a 3.25 imperial size at the rear, a 3.00 imperial size at the front. I believe that that is roughly the same sizing as was fitted to the contemporary AR125, and a little larger than the fitment on the first RD125’s with 18” wheels. Later versions of the RD got a more fashionable 16” front tyre, and while 17” wheels would be the modern norm for a sports-bike, interesting to note that the CBR125 uses 18” wheels with very similar sized tyres on them. Ie “narrow”. This does have advantages, and for a Learner-Bike, most of them are very useful. One important point to note, is that they are not an onsolete size, and there is a good choice of tyres available in appropriate sizings.
They are, however a PIG to clean. The rims and spoke plates have a hard anodised finish, but they do tarnish over time, but the hubs are painted, and that can start t flake. But the main problem is that they gather all the road grime in almost impossible to get at crevices between the plates, which are attached at the rim with hot-rivets, and at the hub, with anti-tamper bolts, while the plates proclaim a stamping which reads ‘DO NOT DISSASSEMBLE’.
Electrics
The CB125TD-C has a very good 12v electrical system. The bike had an electric start, again very avante guarde for its era on a ‘little’ bike, and to be sure it worked reliably, given they dropped the kick-starter of earlier models, they gave it a pretty hefty 9Ah battery and a big 150w generator.
Lighting is battery supplemented, so it doesn’t go dim with low engine revs, or off without the engine running as many small bikes do, and the headlamp is a pretty useful 45W tungsten lamp, with a good beam pattern from the square headlamp. At least the standard ‘Stanley’ made items. Aftermarket replacements, often with lower wattage ‘Halogen’ bulb actually aren’t so good, even though they may be brighter. There is a fully appointed dash-board with mechanical speed and rev-counter, both back-lit with the side-lights on, and tell-tales for the indicators and high-beam, and a neutral indicator lamp. There are brake-lamp switches on both the front brake lever and the foot-brake pedal, and the starter motor solenoid is wired so that the engine cannot be started in gear, unless the clutch lever is pulled in. There is no side-stand inhibit switch to cause ignition maladies, and the engine’s ignition, is a transistorised ‘CDi’ system with contact-less trigger, on a self energised circuit. (it has its own windings in the generator, so it doesn’t take power from the battery, but will only get power when the engine is turning over) Electrics are often a bone of contention on old bikes, but they aren’t particularly difficult on the little Super-Dream. Ignition faults are often something that vexes a lot of people, usually the fact that they cant find any power on the ignition circuits, because the engines not running, causing them to do a lot of fault finding by replacement, swapping lots of pretty expensive components like the coils or CDi units for no other reason than a bad earth connection. These, like any old bike, the CB125 has its fair share of. The important ones though are the earth for the regulator, the earths for the ignition coils and, and the earths for the indicators, which have hidden earth straps where they are rubber mounted. Most are easily ‘sorted’ though
Engine:-
The CB125TD-C has a four-stroke, parallel twin cylinder, air-cooled, engine, with chain drive single overhead cam-shaft and two-valves per cylinder. It has twin carburettors, and an electronic ignition, and is rated at 12.5bhp (The UK Learner-Limit when the bike was manufactured)
Originally conceived as a ‘sports-bike’, it revs very willingly to a 12,000rpm red-line, to offer comparably performance to the two-stroke sports-bikes of its era, like the Yamaha RD125LC or Kawasaki AR125LC. De-tuned from approximately 15bhp of earlier or other market models, it was not ‘restricted’ like the Two-Stroke Yamaha, and so not easy to liberate any cheap or easy extra power from. Conveniently this has tended to mean that they weren’t often bought by ‘boy-racers’ who meddled with the engines in misguided attempts to tune them! The engine design entered serial manufacture in 1977, and has proven itself a fairly dependable and robust unit, if properly maintained, especially in the smaller, less stressed 125 capacity.
It is a feature of this engine that the crank-shafts are supported on four needle roller bearings, with roller-bearings for the con-rod little end. These low friction bearings are one of the features that allows the four-stroke engine to reliably and safely rev to such high rpm. However, they are not tolerant of poor lubrication. Like many small Honda’s the oil filter is a strainer in the sump of the engine, that requires the primary drive cover to be removed to gain access. The maintenance schedule, suggests that the engine oil should be changed every 2000miles, and the oil filter removed and cleaned every second oil change. Neglecting these procedures is about the ONLY think guaranteed to kill them. Their other foible is for piston ring and cylinder bore wear that all engines suffer, leading to low compression, and associated high oil consumption. This engine, this is no more prone than any other ‘high performance’ motorcycle engine, apart from the fact that with only 12.5bhp, and a learner-owner, few recognise that it IS a high performance engine, and probably don’t even know that high-performance engines need the frequent oil changes stated in the maintenance schedule, and shouldn’t be thrashed from cold.
Cosmetics:-
Cosmetically, the CB125TD-C is ‘conservatively styled’, and unlike its two-stroke rivals, doesn’t boast any extraneous body-work, by way of fairing or belly-pan or anything. It was available in three basic colour options; Red, Black and Silver. Side Panels tend to crack at the top beneath the end of the tank. Lugs get snapped off. Should be plastic cover over the horn.
Look at the plastic tail cowl where it is bolted to the support rail under the seat. They ALL snap at the seat end. Rear mudguards crack around the mounting holes, inside, under the seat.
Look carefully at the headlamp & Indicators. Its all on a wire cage clipped to the yokes rather than blades on the forks. Any misalignment is evidence of crash-damage.
Should be plastic cover on handle-bars over the yoke around ignition switch.

Otherwise, very useful little learner-legals, See stuff on site. BUT they are NOT an 'indestructable' hack comuter like the CG125, they were Honda's 125 Sports-Bike offering to go up against the two-stroke RD-LD and AR-LC, on performance. Hardier then the 2T's, they have prooved pretty tough, and incredibly many have survived as well as the supposedly 'inderstructable' CG, BUT they rev to 14 thousand revs! They are a hi-po bike, and ought to get commensurate maintenence.

Plus side for larger learner, they are a big-bike in miniature, and have a lot of fetures and sophistiction of a bigger bike. though they aren't huge.

Riding possition though is pretty good, and they aren't too cramped for a little bike. I'm 6'2" and long in arm & leg. Its comfy enough,a nd theres no fairing or anything to get in the way of your knees and room to move about on the long flat saddle.

Cant think of anyting else OTMH so best of luck....
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Teflon-Mike]

[badas]

thankyou teflon mike,

had a chat with him this morning and all sounds promising,

the spare engines... he got 1 spare when we got the bike, got the other a couple of months back as it was cheap.

he says the engines not been changed since he has owned it and he doesn't know if they ever were, they were simply bought for keeps sake due to them being cheap, rare and such

1 of them is 100% dead, other he doesn't know and dairnt take apart due ot it being so small...

its in need of an oil change and filter change though as its overdue by a few months :/

arranged to go check it out this afternoon though

any last minute advice? :/

thanks

[stinkwheel]

[badas]

i backed out from it, was going to be too costsly but just wasn't happy with the fact of them not selling the motors on themselves if they were worth so much

considering other people are getting CG's for £350 or so iel just keep on looking

cheers guys

[.....]

Blimey Mike, over 2500 words in that post! That's more than in most essays I did back in my school days

[Teflon-Mike]