Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Electric Motorcycle 1 Pence A Mile

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Mushroom
Nearly there...



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:16 - 15 Sep 2012    Post subject: Electric Motorcycle 1 Pence A Mile Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08vGYDDlAYY

To good to be true? I would actually like to have a go on one of these, and if this is a repost go stick your tongue in your toaster, its really more productive than flashing your dam light at me. Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Amreet
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 31 May 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:23 - 15 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
the savings on juice will be eaten away by the fact one costs 20 times more than my bike did, whilst costing 10 times less per mile. I doubt the batteries will last long enough to make it anywhere near economical.

1p a mile is great, less great after a 12k purchase price and then an awful lot worse when after 500 miles the batteries are knackered and will cost a fortune to replace.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

goto10
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:18 - 15 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The batteries are good for 300,000 miles - the cost to replace them is the same as a new engine in a petrol powered bike. No problem there.
Once the initial purchase price comes down (and one of the big players is making it) then I'll definitely be having one. Google Brammo Empulse. Then you shall see what's going to start taking hold of the 'commuter market' in 10~20 years...
____________________
'12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:53 - 15 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
goto10 wrote:
The batteries are good for 300,000 miles


Rather more than their claimed life, and that assumes no cock ups in the mean time. Teslas have had a fair few people killing their batteries within a fairly short space of time.

If the battery lasts 5 years then the cost advantage has disappeared. A CG125 is costing about 5p a mile in fuel, so a 4p saving (assuming electricity for charging vehicles doesn't get taxed in some way) would take 100,000 miles to pay for a £4k battery pack.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

goto10
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:09 - 16 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
goto10 wrote:
The batteries are good for 300,000 miles


Rather more than their claimed life,


No it's not.

Quote:


...and that assumes no cock ups in the mean time. Teslas have had a fair few people killing their batteries within a fairly short space of time.


Generally people who haven't looked after them and left them completely discharged for periods of time. If you get an electrical vehicle, know how to look after the batteries. If you get a fossil fuel vehicle, change the oil. No machine is perfect and everything needs the correct care.

Quote:

If the battery lasts 5 years then the cost advantage has disappeared. A CG125 is costing about 5p a mile in fuel, so a 4p saving (assuming electricity for charging vehicles doesn't get taxed in some way) would take 100,000 miles to pay for a £4k battery pack.

All the best

Keith


The Brammo's battery has a quoted life of 300,000 miles. As said on another thread, even if you only made it to half of the manufacturer's claim then surely that's good enough to not worry about it.
I'm sure the engine in a petrol powered bike costs a significant percentage of the overall build cost too but you don't worry about how much it'll be to change it when it's worn out.
____________________
'12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jjdugen
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:54 - 16 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Brother is a lease car manager, has all the manufacturers fawning all over him for orders and gets a lot of tasty cars to evaluate. We've had all the hybrids, from the original Honda slug shaped thing through the Civic and Prius to the new Peugeot diesel electric thing.
But, this week he turned up with one that actually works. No heavy weight feeling or crashing suspension with this one. It goes very well indeed, extremely economical even when I'm let loose in it.
Its the Vauxhall Ampera, this one has actually changed my mind about these things, it's a viable option...... If you can take the hefty £40,000 price tag. (That should come down to more affordable levels as manufacturers get economies of scale factored in). The future is not as black as I thought!
____________________
The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:45 - 16 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
goto10 wrote:

No it's not.


1500 cycles to 80% life, with a 77 mile range on the combined cycle. A touch over 100000 mile life if you use the full range for every charge.

goto10 wrote:

Generally people who haven't looked after them and left them completely discharged for periods of time. If you get an electrical vehicle, know how to look after the batteries. If you get a fossil fuel vehicle, change the oil. No machine is perfect and everything needs the correct care.


A machine where correct care is not being able to leave it in an airport car park while you are away without destroying a component that is the majority of the cost of that machine is pretty useless.

goto10 wrote:
The Brammo's battery has a quoted life of 300,000 miles. As said on another thread, even if you only made it to half of the manufacturer's claim then surely that's good enough to not worry about it.
I'm sure the engine in a petrol powered bike costs a significant percentage of the overall build cost too but you don't worry about how much it'll be to change it when it's worn out.


I am sure in perfect use the bike engine would have a service life far in excess of Brammos advertising claims for battery life. You are comparing an extreme claim for battery life against the life of a typically abused bike used on the road.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

BravoCharlie
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:55 - 16 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
jjdugen wrote:

Its the Vauxhall Ampera, this one has actually changed my mind about these things, it's a viable option...... If you can take the hefty £40,000 price tag. (That should come down to more affordable levels as manufacturers get economies of scale factored in). The future is not as black as I thought!



The Ampera is a great car. i work for a Vauxhall Dealer and its just excellent. you're looking at £28k for a standard model and £38 for the top spec though...which is a bit extreme!

no doubt though their chevy sister, the volt, will be built the exact same except for the grill, and be a damn sight cheaper!
____________________
Current: Kawasaki ZL600 Eliminator
Past: Suzuki GZ125, Kawasaki GT550, Kawasaki GPX600R, Honda vrx400,Kawasaki Zephyr 750, Suzuki SV650 K5
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

bikertomm
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:16 - 16 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
No thankyou.

No where near developed enough for me to even consider an electric bike.

And 12k, is that a joke? I'd hate to think how many miles I could do on my 125 when it costs about £8 to do 120 miles!

Point - less

Thumbs Up
____________________
07' Honda Hornet now full powaah! My guide on performing an oil change!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

goto10
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:31 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bikertomm wrote:
No thankyou.

No where near developed enough for me to even consider an electric bike.

And 12k, is that a joke? I'd hate to think how many miles I could do on my 125 when it costs about £8 to do 120 miles!

Point - less

Thumbs Up


No, it's not pointless. I'm sure people were saying similar things 100 years ago when cars were in their infancy, things need to start somewhere. They _will_ succeed, despite the Luddites trying to smash the idea with their fuel-soaked spanners - but granted, we're talking years if not decades.
____________________
'12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogue_Shadow
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 May 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:38 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be perfectly honest

https://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/971693d96b20c2193b16f04a95e3ac73.jpg

This or Nothing!

Or that Bike from Dark Knight with adjustable front end Mr. Green
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

goto10
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:45 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:


1500 cycles to 80% life, with a 77 mile range on the combined cycle. A touch over 100000 mile life if you use the full range for every charge.


So you think a petrol engine is still at 100% [of its original] efficiency after 100k? 80% life isn't dead, it's still a usable machine.


Kickstart wrote:

A machine where correct care is not being able to leave it in an airport car park while you are away without destroying a component that is the majority of the cost of that machine is pretty useless.

So one [easily avoided] scenario means the vehicle is useless? That is an extremely blinkered opinion.
But anyway, if the charge was 50%+ (it would need to be if you'd planned to get home) and assuming the batteries are Lithium then this wouldn't actually be an issue - Lithium batteries are fantastic at holding a charge for prolonged periods. I store LiPo batteries for extended periods at 75% charge and they only lose a few percent.
I'm guessing the Tesla users finished a long drive and then parked the cars up practically flat. But again, that's something you need to avoid doing, same as you'd avoid running a petrol engine without oil.

Kickstart wrote:

I am sure in perfect use the bike engine would have a service life far in excess of Brammos advertising claims for battery life. You are comparing an extreme claim for battery life against the life of a typically abused bike used on the road.

All the best

Keith

I don't see many bikes with over 100k on the clock - granted they can if looked after, as applies to electric vehicles.
____________________
'12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ZaphodBeeble
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:54 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
goto10 wrote:
I'm guessing the Tesla users finished a long drive and then parked the cars up practically flat. But again, that's something you need to avoid doing, same as you'd avoid running a petrol engine without oil.


Um, no. You'd avoid running out of fuel which equates to battery charge. Running a car low on fuel has no effect on the engine whatsoever.
____________________
Current bike: VTR1000F Firestorm. Previous: Firestorm (written off) - XJ600 Divvy - NSR125 - DT125 and a load of offroaders.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

goto10
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:00 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZaphodBeeble wrote:
goto10 wrote:
I'm guessing the Tesla users finished a long drive and then parked the cars up practically flat. But again, that's something you need to avoid doing, same as you'd avoid running a petrol engine without oil.


Um, no. You'd avoid running out of fuel which equates to battery charge. Running a car low on fuel has no effect on the engine whatsoever.


Rolling Eyes
You're missing the point, I'm saying what's on the "DO NOT DO" list for either machine. In this case, storing the vehicle complete discharged is a "DO NOT DO" option. Each type of vehicle has its own list of things you shouldn't do.
For general use, the EV will have a safety system that cuts power when you're low on power - in reality this will probably be at 10 or 15% of the actual battery capacity. So it won't hurt the batteries to run it to 'empty' - although you should then charge it up within a week or two rather than leaving it for months.
____________________
'12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ZaphodBeeble
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:13 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I always run my car into the reserve; if I had a battery powered vehicle that would break down for that very reason then I really don't want one. When the technology progresses to the point where it's useful AND affordable then I would most definitely snap one up.

I think the point that you're missing is that people don't want to fork out a shit-ton of money for something that's unproven, unfashionable (at the moment) and possibly has high maintenance costs.
____________________
Current bike: VTR1000F Firestorm. Previous: Firestorm (written off) - XJ600 Divvy - NSR125 - DT125 and a load of offroaders.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:20 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
A cheap DIY converted hack for getting to and from work or to the shops - makes sense.
An expensive new bike - makes no sense.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Derivative
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:25 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZaphodBeeble wrote:
I always run my car into the reserve; if I had a battery powered vehicle that would break down for that very reason then I really don't want one.


For sake of argument, let's say the car manufacturer sets 'reserve' as 30% of battery capacity remaining, and 'no go' as 15% of battery capacity remaining.

Functionally there is no difference between that and the reserve 'tank' on most bikes.

It is a moot point to claim that the battery would be broken if it reached 0%. It won't reach 0% and break. Laptops don't suffer that problem, mobile phones don't, cameras don't. It is handled by the battery circuitry.

If your fuel hose snaps you're left with a useless lump too... how often does that happen?

On the point of leaving the vehicle and coming back to have no charge remaining - well, that happens with traditional ICE's too, petrol doesn't remain usable forever, the timescale is just slightly longer.

I have a Game Boy sitting on my desk that uses lithium ion batteries. It hasn't been near a charger for at least a year and it's able to boot up a game and get to the title screen without displaying a battery warning. There is no reason to believe a car would suffer from huge discharging problems unless it's stored in extreme temperatures or has a manufacturing defect.

Quote:
I think the point that you're missing is that people don't want to fork out a shit-ton of money for something that's unproven


The point that is being missed is that noone has delusions that these vehicles have mass market potential yet, other than a few marketers (who are paid to pretend just that).

Tesla didn't design the Roadster and Model S to be used by that bloke down the road who works at Sainsbury.

Unpredictable maintenance costs are a fair criticism, but then again, at the dawn of the ICE I doubt that was even a consideration. The original automobiles were likely built by the rich, for the rich. We see the same criticisms over in the Chinese bike threads - even if a stellar performer was released, no-one would want to risk having it fall apart in a few years.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Pol Anorl This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.

Derivative
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:32 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hahadumbarse wrote:
Riding down m25 happily at 70, oh shit battery is dead.
Game over its rac time.

petrol motorcycle, riding down m25 run out of fuel, its all good get friend to bring you out some fuel in a can.


Yes, because fuel is easily available currently and spare batteries aren't.

If electric vehicles become commonplace then the situation will not remain as it is.

Also, reserve tanks are designed for this reason...

edit: In addition, do you really have friends on tap in most parts of the country who would be willing to come out at the drop of a hat?

If I'm at home, I wouldn't run out of fuel.
If I'm out on a long ride, it's going to take a good hour or two and £20 of fuel for a friend to get to me. That's assuming they're not at work or otherwise occupied.

Last edited by Derivative on 01:37 - 17 Sep 2012; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Pol Anorl This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.

supZ
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:36 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
unless it can go from empty to full in 2 minutes like a petrol/diesel vehicle its not viable.

to be blunt, technology needs to move forward not backward and taking the convenience of a fuelled car/bike over having to wait 8 hours whilst the thing charges after 100 ish miles i know what i would go for.

they kinda have the wrong idea with electric bikes. they should make the batteries interchangeable. running low? pop to the garage and swap it for a fully charged one. (the garage can then charge it and give it to the next guy that pops in the next day)

if they designed them in this way it would make much more sense and take the biggest annoyance out of electrically powered vehicles (the charging time)

ok so perhaps its a little more complicated than that (mainly for ensuring viability of the batteries if they're going to be swapping them from vehicle to vehicle) but see my point..

i dont see electric as the future tbh.
____________________
CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Derivative
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:38 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hahadumbarse wrote:
but the size of the batteries is silly, unless they are going to create battery exchanges where you take old and get a new then its going to be pretty useless still.

They would have to swap batteries and charge for the electric used in charging + profit which would probably make it more expensive than a petrol engie.


Yes, if you replace (or are required to replace) the entire set of batteries.

If your car runs out of fuel you don't get someone to come out with a 40 litre jerry can.

supZ wrote:
they kinda have the wrong idea with electric bikes. they should make the batteries interchangeable. running low? pop to the garage and swap it for a fully charged one. (the garage can then charge it and give it to the next guy that pops in the next day)


In theory this is good, but batteries are bulky and delicate, especially for larger vehicles. We're talking hundreds of kilograms.

I find these threads tiresome to be honest because people rehash the same _completely obvious_ downsides. If these problems were insoluble, then why would manufacturers even bother? There is a clear potential.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Pol Anorl This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.

Derivative
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:51 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
We've pretty much already covered that.

Go back to the 1800s.
Petrol is an explosive liquid that evaporates on its own.
You're telling me I'm going to go into a shop and buy a bottle of this stuff and put it in my carriage?
What if I crash? I'll go down in a burning inferno.

Somehow, we got to the stage we're at today, in which petrol is a relatively minor concern in a collision.

The current criticisms levied against electric vehicles are on par with calling computers pointless because they once were the size of rooms and took hours to add two digit numbers together.

I suppose IBM and pals should have simply not bothered.

I just don't get the short sightedness. Maybe we'll never engineer the problems away. But it's the best shot we have, given that we _will_ run into an oil shortage some time in the next century or two.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

TheSmiler
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:57 - 17 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The only people that will be switching to electric bikes at the moment are the ones that go after gadgets. Just like the first people who went out to buy the first flat screen television £15,000 in 1997 now look at the price.

Let me put it another way would you buy the very first hover car/bike or wait till they have improved them Question

I'll be waiting 5 years minimum from the first actual usable electrical bike, then it will be worthwhile with batteries improved and better designs.

Batteries need serious improvements if we are to advance with any electrical vehicle.
____________________
CB125>CG125>GN125>ER5>K100RS>R1100RS>K100RS
A2 completed 23/07/15 Ready for the Golden Crisp Packet
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 11 years, 223 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.13 Sec - Server Load: 0.75 - MySQL Queries: 16 - Page Size: 151.79 Kb