Can't get the flywheel off

[J.M.]

Today I tried removing the flywheel on the bike, and have spectacularly failed and gotten stuck. I'd really appreciate some help.

https://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/img_20120830_142937.jpg

I've removed that bolt in the middle, that was the easy part.

Next Haynes said that I could either use the specialist Suzuki tool or use an alternative method.

The alternative method was to insert a 36mm spacer in to the hole, then use the swing-arm bolt (M16) to tighten up in to the hole. It said to tighten this up then tap it with a hammer and it should come loose.

I've tried that, nothing's happened. I've tried upping the size of the spacer from 36-40mm and still, can't get it to budge.

I've also noticed that one of the magnets was loose and cracked. I'm presuming that it was my doing, but now only 5 out of the 6 magnets are attached to that thing.

I get the impression I've really fvcked up here.

Where do I go from here?
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[Teflon-Mike]

RM Motorcycles / Cylinder Rebores Tenlons Road.

Personally, I would pop the motor out the frame, and take it over Tenlons; and let them get the rotor off on a press.

The 'principle' of using the axle bolt is that its larger thread is screwing into the rotor and pressing on the end of the crank to press it away and off the taper, opposite to the rotor bolt that screws into the crank and pulls it on.

Yes; Haynes book of lies way of doing it is great in principle, but the bikes they take apart are under a year old, and still have factory assembly grease on them! We have to deal with rust and siezed stuff!

And after wasting days of my life and giving myself a bald patch scratching my head over this kind of niggledy prob..... over to the pro's and a fiver in the beer fund.... job jobbed, without further deforrestation of the cranium.

Next question, what to do about the rotot and its missing magnet?

New rotor.

Or 2nd hand one. I think I would be tempted to ponder if I could re-attach it, and I am thinking about the high temperature 'gloop' we used to use at Lucas, developed for attaching brake shoe linings and stuff..... which is probably what held the thing on to start with, and is far from the sort of household adhesive you get at Halfords....

But even if I could get some from somewhere, knowing the clerances those magnets are running, and the balence of the rotor... I think I would have to be desperately desperate to go through with it.... its not just risking the rotor if fix fauls but likely to wreck the stator if it does, and any imbalence could harm crank/crank bearings, so I think I would probably bite bullet and cough up for a replacement rotor, just for piece of mind.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[bikenut]

hi dude, as this is wet with oil ( meaning oil is in there ) i doubt any rust corrosion issues.

with pad and arm bolt, try again but pour boiling water on central hub bit and try again.

avoid belting the end of the arm bolt with a hammer as shock/load transmitted thru crankshaft, also slide hammer will break c/case.

try boiling water ( or oil if your against water inside engine ( or cover "holes" so water cant get in ).

i suspect you held f/wheel with big spanner on "flats" and shocked axle?

or tieghtened it as much as poss?

get new f/wheel

[J.M.]

[bikenut]

try the hot water trick first, it does work.

[J.M.]

[cimbian]

Stop struggling and get a bigger 'ammer.
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22PlusY
Current: Moto Guzzi 1100 Breva. Previous: Honda XL650V TransAlp
Bearded, Balding, Born again Buddhist Biker

[bikenut]

try the hot waqter trick or grind the bugger of!!

[J.M.]

No joy.

Emptied an entire kettle on to it gradually and the bugger still wouldn't come off. Only succeeded in breaking another magnet.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[orac]

there isnt really enough info in your post, when you said you failed with the swing arm bolt method - how did you fail? did you get tight and then you gave up. which part did you poor the boiling water onto.

also hitting the fly wheel is a big no no as it nocks the magents off - so yeh you may have been the reason for the magnet removing itself.

the force needed to remove the fly wheel is quite high.

another thought i had was the is the spacer you use the right diameter.

it may also be trying using a 2 leg puller around the back of the start ring (you will have to the starter idle gear - which you should have already done)
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

[orac]

yeh you will need to poor it onto the centre (you can use a blow tourch if need be).

the bolt has got to go tighter than that, it has to jack the fly wheel of the taper. i presume you are holding the fly wheel still as in the manual.

how ever if the fly wheel has never been removed it maybe tighter than thight. i have had a local shop strugggle to removle a fly wheel with a 10 tone hydrolic puller and blow tourch
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

Still holding it, yes. Even using an old stanchion as extra leverage to tighten the bolt but nothing.

The first bolt wasn't so difficult to remove... why's this one so much harder!

How much did the garage charge you to remove it? Thinking with the broken magnets + garage bill + unknown and potentially expensive fault with the engine it might be time to write the bike/engine off.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[lukamon]

get a puller. usefull for other such things as car wheel bearings, and well, pulling shit off other shit.

i used mine t pull the flywheel off a 10 year old briggs and stratton lawnmower. by CHRIST was it tight. my engine locking method was to shove some thin nylon rope into the sparkplug hole when on compression stroke - though im not sure if this might harm a more "highly strung" enginbe such as a bike one

seriously though, if you think it wont come off, turn it tighter. make sure you are turning from the centre of the bolt, too. might pay to support the centre of the ratchet with wooden blocks / bricks from the ground so you can belt the end of it with an 'ammer
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killa wrote: Im an ass man myself

[Teflon-Mike]

cylinder rebores took two super-dream rotos off two engines for me for a fiver, Jord. they are good like that.

As said, the thing ought to come off the tapers with a bit of persuasion, using the screw-in method, though you can waste a lot of effort widing up ans tensioning whatever is holding teh rotor from turning before anything starts to happen.

Here, brealer bars or extension poles can be a double edged sword, becouse leverage magnification means that the very small deflection that they make 'loading up' can be quite a lot of a turn on the breaker bar on the other end..

err.. yeah, screw moved like 0.5mm per turn. Now, say you need to take up maybe 0.1mm which is practically bugger all, of 'slack' in the thread, and then another 0.1mm of compression on the end of teh screw before you even START applying pressure, you might have to make half a turn on the breaker before it even starts loading anything.

Now put six foot scaffold pole on the breaker bar, and lifting the thing eight foot probably gets barely a 1/3 turn on the screw.

Now apply similar leverage to the breaker you use as reaction to hold the rotor, and you can easily need to make two full turns on the undoing lever to JUST put tension on everything, before you start applying removal tension.....

And you have about 1/3 of a turn before you are bashing cieling or have to have some-one take over the centre, and then they run out of lever room when it touches the floor.

They also come off with a crack.... the 'sticktion' on the taper means that they dont want to move, dont want to move, but soon as you have put enough force on that they will move, they are 'off' and all the tension comes out of everything with a crack....

Cue flat on face nose paving slab interaction type events, breakers meeting goolies standing on garden rake scenarios....

DO NOT take the engle grinder to it.......

You have done enough damage for one day.......

Its salvageable.... may cost you a new OEM price rotor, but THAT is a darn site cheaper than a new crank, and a full engine rebuild or a new engine... when you end up taking chuks out of the taper on the crank!

And if you are at complete loss.... have you still got Nick's number? Mechanic at end of my street?
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[prawny1]

The fly wheel is stufed anyway so i would just get a three leg puller and blowtorch to get some tension and heat on it then give it a few good whacks with a hammer.

You would be surprise what shocking things with a hammer can unstick
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hellkat wrote:

Some people are only alive cos its against the law to kill them.

[J.M.]

OEM price rotor is $250-310 USD. That's at least £150!

So by the time I've fixed the start clutch the bill will be around £200 minimum. That's not using an OEM starter clutch... that's hoping I can repair mine.

That's not even including the engine damage. I have no idea what's wrong with it. It runs, like a bag of nails. This is what I'm dealing with engine wise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWYIiHPYRhI

That with a black left cylinder spark plug and burning through 1L of oil in the past 3-4 months, I think the engine could be expensive to fix.

I genuinely think that a used replacement engine could be the more financially viable option, that or a cheap run around bike maybe.

I'm keeping an eye out on eBay at the moment before deciding what to do next. If a cheap rotor comes up, I may get it, if a cheap bike becomes available I might get it.

As it stands... I'm thinking replacement bike. Then break mine down in to spares and sell it.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[orac]

how many miles does that motor have. the 400 was burning 1l of oil a month doing about 250-300km a week. that was heavily warn bores coupled with valve stem seales leaking.

however from your vid, the starter cluctch os forked, and its should like either the big about to fall apart (if it hasnt already) or the piston is striking a valve - i have never heard a noise from an engine like that.

i would suggest swapping a motor or bike - for the value of a gs and the cost of another engine you will have to flip a coin for a desicion
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

About 27k on the clock. No HPI reported engine changes or mileage discrepancies so I believe it's a genuine 27k.

The thing is, it sounds like that when starting from cold. It'll run terribly from cold for a minute. Once there's a little heat in the engine it'll run perfectly and sound spot on. Also when the engine is hot it'll start back up effortlessly.

But yes, I thing it's completely dead. I think breaking is going to be the best option and getting a new bike.

If I sell I guess I could probably get about £600 from spares. Although I guess parts will take quite a while to sell!
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[orac]

it should never sound like that, hot or cold. it would be nice to find out was making that noise tho - another thought i was jst having, was the GS5 had issue with cams, they sounded nocky (never that nocky tho) when cold, there was a shim pack available to stop it.
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

[orac]

the motors are pretty bullet proof, providing you can keep them running they will take you any where you want.

i dont think your gonna get much for 400, if can sell the GS to raise that total then you shoyld be good - you must have other transport judging from this thread
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

[Tristan.]

I have a set of flywheel pullers, you look close to me on the map

[orac]

that maybe a good idea JM, before you jump in with both feet.

if could have a listen to the motor too it would be helpful
____________________
Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"