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natefz6 |
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natefz6 Brolly Dolly
Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Karma :
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MC |
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MC Banned
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Posted: 18:42 - 14 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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It depends on the situation. If there's a lorry at the front of the queue I'm not going to sit alongside it. I'm a vulnerable road user too. Infact the other day I stopped beyond the the box, as I could still see the lights there (a lorry was at the front). Then another biker joined me ____________________ Yamaha MT-03 '08 (crashed)
Honda XR-125L '04 |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 20:03 - 14 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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As discussed earlier, pedalists are also committing the offence unless they enter the box from a dedicated pedalist lane. If there's no lane, or they don't use it, you should knock them off their bike and kneel on their neck until a constable arrives to punish them properly.
FACT. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 08:11 - 15 Aug 2013; edited 1 time in total |
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
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Jim Mc |
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Jim Mc Nearly there...
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:10 - 15 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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Pete. wrote: | Rogerborg wrote: | As discussed earlier, pedalists are also committing the offence unless they enter the box from a dedicated pedalist lane. If there's no lane, or they don't use it, you should knock them off their bike and kneel on their neck until a constable arrives to punish them properly.
FACT. |
Does that mean that only the ones which have the feeding cycle-lane sporting a solid line can be enforced as an offence for motorcyclists who happen to enter the box via the cycle lane? |
I've corrected my 100% factual post above to make it 110% factual. We discussed this earlier, if there's no cycle lane leading into the box, and no picture of a bicycle (of the correct size), then it's not a valid advanced stop line.
Here's the definitive description of pedalist boxes. If a box doesn't match this, then it's not valid, and you can cheerfully ignore it, although you may find that the forces of Idiocracy don't know that.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/images/uksi_20023113_en_112.gif ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 08:20 - 15 Aug 2013; edited 2 times in total |
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Ludford |
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Ludford Borekit Bruiser
Joined: 12 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 08:14 - 15 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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Some use the boxes, others fly straight through.
Some lemon yesterday came late into the box where Brixton Rd joins the A3, cut across diagonal and then the lights changed but he was in the wrong gear, wobbled, put his foot down after a lot of clattering from his deraillieur and nearly got ploughed into the tarmac by three lanes of traffic (including cyclists).
As with everything, there are sensible people at it and there are complete fuckwits. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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Doovy |
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Doovy World Chat Champion
Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Karma :
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Posted: 10:05 - 15 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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Crackdown of this with coppers at Northumberland Ave. leading up to Traf. Sq off of the Embankment today. Spotted in time and trundled past in first gear with the TL giving it some meaty revs. ____________________ Yamaha RXS 100 > Honda CD 250 > Honda Hornet 600 > Honda CBR 600RR > Yamaha RXS 100 > Kawasaki ZX6R J2 > Yamaha FZ1 |
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goto10 |
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goto10 World Chat Champion
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Doovy |
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Doovy World Chat Champion
Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Karma :
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Posted: 11:08 - 15 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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You'll be fine, they would have stopped you ____________________ Yamaha RXS 100 > Honda CD 250 > Honda Hornet 600 > Honda CBR 600RR > Yamaha RXS 100 > Kawasaki ZX6R J2 > Yamaha FZ1 |
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Vracktal |
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Vracktal World Chat Champion
Joined: 04 Oct 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 10:29 - 16 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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Seen them doing this all week so far, up 'til today they were on the embankment just before Parliament Square, now they've shifted to York Road, at the traffic lights and the turn-off for Lombard Road (next to the Land-Rover dealership.)
Seen at least ten cars being given opportunities to bribe just this week, plus three motorcyclists stopped including one waved over right in front of me for filtering up the blue cycle lane (but not going in the box.)
Bet the Met are raking it in from this. Especially since they're now very clear that motorcycles aren't allowed in.
Of course, letting motorcyclists in would no doubt ease up congestion, and be safer for us to.
But on the other hand, money. ____________________ 2007 BMW R1200R: On road
2009 BMW G650X Challenge: On road
1975 Norton Commando 850: Off road, awaiting recommissioning |
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natefz6 |
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natefz6 Brolly Dolly
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goto10 |
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goto10 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:08 - 16 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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Vracktal wrote: | Seen them doing this all week so far, up 'til today they were on the embankment just before Parliament Square, now they've shifted to York Road, at the traffic lights and the turn-off for Lombard Road (next to the Land-Rover dealership.)
Seen at least ten cars being given opportunities to bribe just this week, plus three motorcyclists stopped including one waved over right in front of me for filtering up the blue cycle lane (but not going in the box.)
Bet the Met are raking it in from this. Especially since they're now very clear that motorcycles aren't allowed in.
Of course, letting motorcyclists in would no doubt ease up congestion, and be safer for us to.
But on the other hand, money. |
I saw them there again today, I couldn't really make out what they were doing - I kept my nose clean and pulled in behind the ASL (a nice motorist had stopped well short of it so I managed to get in) - a policewoman was standing next to me and another bike ('busa) nosed over the line followed by a coach that went completely past the ASL box and sat waiting to turn right whilst blocking most of the traffic trying to go straight over, the police turned a blind eye to that. So some very selective tugging going on. ____________________ '12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed |
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 14:18 - 22 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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Italic their emphasis, bold mine.
I have been forwarded an email from yourself concerning enforcement of Advanced Stop Lines (ASL's). I apologise for the delay in returning your mail.
The Metropolitan Police in partnership with Transport for London are focussed on making London's road network as safe as possible for all its users. The ASL is a proven safety measure which allows pedal cycles to 'get ahead' of traffic at automatic traffic signals and therefore place them in the safest possible position on the road.
The current tactics targeting these stop lines form part of a wider operation which has seen significant engagement and education prior to this enforcement stage. We are not specifically targeting motor vehicle at these junctions and we are ensuring that all road users comply with the highway code in relation to these ASL's. The purpose of the operation is not to penalise but to change behaviour.
I would like to reassure you that all road users, including cyclists, are being dealt with in the same way. I accept your argument that powered two wheelers, due to the high power to weight ratio, are able to accelerate away from the traffic quickly but ultimately the law does not make provision for these vehicles in the 'ASL'. Therefore, all motor vehicles must stop at the first solid white line at the ASL.
I can assure you that our activity is recorded and logged throughout the operation and so far over 150 cyclists have been issued with fixed penalty notices for contravening the red ATS, compared to 103 motorcyclists and 28 car drivers.
I hope that I have answered your concerns but do feel free to contact me should your require any further explanation.
-----------
You are correct in your belief that technically cyclists should not cross the first solid white line against a red light and entry to the box should be made via gated entrance or cycle lane. However, this is a technicality and a minor infringement. Our focus is on cycle safety and clearly it is more important for the cyclists to be in the safest position on the road. We are proportionate in our approach and as such motorists who only slightly encroach the ASL would not be issued a fixed penalty but instead 'words of advice' are given.
You are also correct in your understanding that if the lights change as a vehicle approaches the line and it is not safe to stop at the first white line, the 'Highway Code' advises that the motorist should stop at the second line. For this reason our officers are instructed to ensure that the light is showing red for at least one second prior to the vehicle entering the ASL.
Ultimately, our aims are to reduce the number of people seriously injured and killed on the roads and these measures are taken with that goal in mind. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:14 - 22 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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"What the law meant to say was..."
Going through Glasgow this weekend, it only just registered with me that many of the ASL boxes have been given a "cycle lane" entering them that's the precise length and width to contain a picture of a bicycle.
Granted I rode straight through several red lights, but I consider this a technicality and a minor infringement since my focus was on Rogerborg safety and also I wanted to. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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map |
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map Mr Calendar
Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
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barrkel |
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barrkel World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:13 - 22 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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IMO it's more dangerous for cyclists to be in front of motorcyclists at a red light than the other way around. Because a motorbike can usually find a way through the thicket of cyclists where a car cannot, yet there is still the risk of some wobbly noob doing something very unexpected.
We shall see. It's very rare that I see any enforcement of any road law whatsoever down my end (E1, E2, E3). ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 14:49 - 23 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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There is no specific offence of entering a 'Bike Box'. The offence is contravening a solid white line at an automatic traffic signal. This is why the ASL has a gated entrance. You are correct in thinking that if a pedal cycle crosses the solid white line it would commit the same offence but clearly the intention of the box is to allow only pedal cycles to get in front of the waiting traffic. Obviously, the police must exercise common sense when enforcing these ASL's.
KSI data is provided by Transport for London and MPS intelligence units and this particular campaign is not the only action the MPS are taking in relation to KSI's but one of many initiatives to reduce these casualties on the roads in London.
I appreciate your personal view on these matters but unfortunately, they are just that and I can only work within a framework which has been legislated for by parliament. As I have already stated, the MPS are not targeting specific vehicles but simply enforcing the law at these locations to raise awareness, change attitudes and behaviours and ultimately save lives.
----
They are not targeting specific vehicles.
They are simply enforcing the laws.
They can only work within a framework legislated by parliament.
If a pedal cycle does the same thing as a motorcycle it is committing the same offence.
The police must use 'common sense'* when applying these rules.
* (By their own judgement, not parliament's, the TRL results, or other peoples, it seems - almost seems like, ya'know, they are actually targetting specific vehicles when enforcing the law .) |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:22 - 23 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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2nd post in a row:
Metcops must:
act with honesty and integrity, fairness and impartiality
not abuse their powers and authority
act in a manner that does not discredit or undermine public confidence in the police service.
If you feel that someone working for the police has not met these standards, you can make a complaint. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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goto10 |
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goto10 World Chat Champion
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Derivative |
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Derivative World Chat Champion
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barrkel |
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barrkel World Chat Champion
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Posted: 21:17 - 23 Aug 2013 Post subject: |
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There was a police team at the junction of Hackney Road, Shoreditch High Street and Old Street this morning on my way to work.
But rather than police the cycle box, it looked more like they were policing cyclists who were running reds!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9RwRfR30yQ ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 10 years, 251 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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