WTF is going on at MAG UK Plc?

[BTTD]

When employees behave that badly (as alleged) you take them through disciplinary procedures and then eventually remove them. It's not easy (in fact it can be a real pita), but it's the right way to do it. Liversidge it would appear tried to intimidate and brow beat those staff. They've stood up for themselves and won a tribunal against MAG. Liversidge = fail.

I've read his invitation as:
Come and see me if you want, I'm happy to shout over anyone that does and more fool you if you ask difficult questions, I can shout really loud.

If he does have a genuine moral position to defend (which he is claiming) he is utterly failing to convey it. He really needs to work on that.

[map]

I was taken with Liversidge being compared to Darth Vader.
I did wonder if he did the death strangle at meetings to get his point across (YouTube reference here ).

FWIW his LinkedIn info says left MAG in 2004 and came back in 2012. If his management style is so bad who did they have him back?
____________________
...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?

[mentalboy]

Today's latest (I really must hit the 'unsuscribe' button for their junk!)

[Rogerborg]

https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0u8i0zFRK1r6kih7.png

And it just... keeps... giving.

Beat me to it, I was busy reading it on my phone and trying not to spit my bacon sandwich out from laughing so hard.

Do they really not realise that this "dem court boyz is know nuffink, innit" diatribe is going to be presented by the claimants at the appeal as an example of their ongoing (and I paraphrase) "angry truculence"?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[trisers]

I can imagine the courts would take a very dim view of that if for no other reason it rubbishes the court's findings which are of course a legal judgement which remains until an appeal is heard and successful.

In any case, widely publicising statements like that before a case (if indeed they do actually appeal) could be seen as prejudicial and as you say Roger, would simply be used as evidence against them in any appeal...I very much doubt any legal advice was sought before they released it!

Says it all really...

[thx1138]

Isle of Wight MAG is now IOW RAG, they've gone independent.


Todays Highlights
Vice Chair of MAG resigns - open letter


OPEN LETTER. To The Board, National Committee and Members of The Motorcycle Action Group.

I first joined MAG in 1984 and formed a local branch, which I ran for 3 years. For the past ten years I have been actively involved in my local MAG group, especially in growing its annual fund raising event. During the period of my involvement, that rally has raised tens of thousands of pounds for MAG. I was proud to be part of supporting the premier riders’ rights organisation in the UK. When I was elected to the role of regional rep, I was pleased to be still further involved, at national level, by contributing to shaping and directing the organisation on behalf of its membership.

For the past year, during my tenure as Vice Chair, I have witnessed the control of MAG progressively removed from the National Committee by the board. For the past year I have tried to use my position within the NC to prevent MAG making decisions and taking actions that seemed to have little to do with riders’ rights and more to do with transferring control of the organisation from the hands of the members into the hands of a few individuals. Those individuals have made it increasingly difficult to hold meaningful and frank debate or in any way question their decisions and have used their influence to prevent what most would recognise as truly democratic process. Consequently I have been party to resolutions which I have found increasingly difficult to defend to the membership.

Due to circumstances beyond the control of the NC, three staff members quit their jobs last year. They have recently won their case for unfair dismissal. The tribunal judgement is a matter of public record. Its content is comprehensively damning of MAG (UK) Ltd and specifically the actions of two of its directors, Mr Pete Walker & Mr Neil Liversidge, as being particularly culpable.

Rather than expressing contrition, and a desire to move forward having learned a harsh lesson, MAG has issued a statement in which it claims to be happy with the morality of its position. It further states that MAG will appeal the judgement. A decision that was made by the board alone, without reference to the membership though it’s National Committee.

Rather than accept the judgement and face a potential compensation claim. MAG (UK) Ltd has transferred all assets to The Motorcycle Action Group Ltd, in an attempt to place those assets beyond the reach of the claimants. Still MAG maintains it is happy with the morality of its position.

Without reference to the membership through its National Committee, The Motorcycle Action Group Ltd have appointed Mr Liversidge as a director. The very same director of MAG (UK) Ltd that was so roundly criticised in the judgement in favour of its ex-employees. And still, MAG maintains it is happy with the morality of its position.

I am not happy with the morality of the position. I cannot, with a clear conscience, continue to support MAG either vocally or tacitly by continuing in the official role of Vice Chair. It is therefore with regret that I tender my resignation as Vice Chairman of MAG, effective immediately.

The UK needs an active and effective Riders Rights organisation. I believed that organisation was MAG. I no longer believe that to be true. MAG claims to be a democratic, member-led organisation. I no longer believe that to be true. I feel MAG has surrendered the moral right to claim to be a representative and credible motorcyclists lobby while it continues under the current management regime.

Jon Wilmer
MAG Vice Chairman 2013-14.
.


NFL Replies


Neil F Liversidge Open Letter To All MAG Members

I write in response to Jon Wilmer resignation letter which basically amounts to attack on me and my colleagues.

The staff problems we experienced are well known. What is not generally known is that Jon Wilmer, without checking a single fact, or being based on any, provided Paddy Tyson with a diatribe that Tyson used to attack the Board when it was trying its best to sort out the staff problems that beset MAG.

Equally it is not known that Pete and I between us paid Jon’s train fare to Yorkshire out of our own pockets – our money, not MAG’s money - and we opened the books to him – sound files, emails, transcripts, everything. Having seen ALL the evidence he accepted our actions were right and necessary.

To say that the Board has taken control from the NC is a fantasy that insults the intelligence and integrity of all concerned. Perhaps Jon is just piqued that most people no longer take him seriously owing to his failure to manage his own region and his failure likewise to deliver the database, a task for which he was to have been paid.

Jon’s description of the corporate actions concerning the old and new companies are incorrect and he should be careful about defaming those who have professional reputations worth defending and the ability to do the same. I do on both counts.

That Jon at this point in time seeks to launch a final stab in my back is no surprise to me at all. I estimated him as a coward and a weakling. He has proven my estimation correct on both counts. If he has a problem with me being a Director he has the opportunity to come to Blackpool and stand against me. He should put up or shut up

[ScaredyCat]

[Rogerborg]

[BTTD]

[almostthere]

seems like its been going on for bloody years https://www.bikersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3577
____________________
Beer, It's the reason I get up every afternoon
www.mfairco.uk

[Rogerborg]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, eh?

Liversedge does seem to have form for picking a fight in an empty room, which is likely what he'll be addressing if they don't turf him out again.

While this is top entertainment, it is rather sad that there are no national organisations advocating for bikers are the moment.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[map]

[Rogerborg]

[WD Forte]

"While this is top entertainment, it is rather sad that there are no national organisations advocating for bikers are the moment."

True
I expect MAG will be rushing to allay members fears on this and tell us all its business as usual so we can all be comfortably numb in our morals or some similar old bollocks.
I'm seriously wondering if its worth throwng any more dosh their way.

All I've had is one press release, sweet feck all from my local rep (whoever that is) and wonder if they want most folk to just cough up the dosh and read the mag.
( BTW is it me or is it really fuckin boring? )


Liverish is a liabilty, I like an asskicker but you have to stick the knife in quietly, smile sweetly and not make a fuss.
His 'come over here if you think yer hard enough' rants are
an embarassment.
We need a Machiavellian type not a pub brawler.
Thats assuming he's vaguely on the side of the good guys and Tyson et al were taking the piss.

Assuming...
I dont know the truth, probably never will and not sure I care anymore.
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[thx1138]

My renewal went in the bin. Our local fledgling branch which was due its first AGM disbanded as most the members did likewise.

[thx1138]

https://www.wemoto.com/news/article/517/whither_magfarce_meets_tragedy

On 4th February Wemoto News published an article about the appointment of Lembit Opik as the new campaign coordinator for the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) following the departures of their established and respected team of Paddy Tyson, Nich Brown and Louise Smith from the central office.

Now in March, following an employment tribunal that ruled in favour of the three employees for constructive dismissal, the organisation gives every appearance of imploding under recriminations, resignations and an almost entirely negative response to the episode from across the motorcycling population.

Despite losing and costs being awarded to the (former) employees. MAG then issued a lengthy statement, available on their website, claiming that despite the ruling they were satisfied that they were morally right. A denial in other words that they had been through a judicial process with a tribunal judge who was very critical of the MAG Directors who were the subject of the complaints. They say they will be appealing

The MAG protagonists at the hearing were Directors Neil Liversidge and Peter Walker, with Ian Mutch MAG's long standing President and Editor of their magazine 'Road', in attendance as an observer. The behaviour and conduct of Liversidge in particular came in for criticism; and even Ian Mutch described him as
“having the diplomatic credentials of a Chieftain tank”.


Perhaps one of the key statements came from the tribunal judge who said:


“Mr Liversidge is physically imposing. He told me on the first day of the hearing when I remonstrated with him about the volume of his speech, that he was completely deaf in one ear and unaware of the level of his voice. As an observer I can appreciate that those being questioned by Mr Liversidge in this tribunal, will have found the level, if not the content, of his questions at times intimidating..."

“In contrast to Mr Liversidge and Mr Walker the three claimants gave calm and measured responses to the questions from Mr Liversidge, and to the extent that there is a dispute between their recollection of events and those of the respondent's witnesses I prefer their recollection”.

One of the post tribunal manoeuvres which has provoked a good deal of disgust with many who have followed this sad saga, is a clumsy but effective move to avoid paying the compensation costs awarded against them by winding up the former company MAG (UK) Ltd, and transferring the assets to a new company, Motorcycle Action Group Ltd.

As would be expected in a situation such as this involving the main rider organisation in the country, comment on social media and forums has been prolific. Most of it not very flattering to MAG as an organisation or for their conduct towards the three former members of staff who seem to have garnered a good deal of respect in their roles over the years.

On public Facebook pages Neil Liversidge continues his defence of his position and situation despite the ruling, by seeking to put forward his version of events and the misdeeds of the claimants. While also insulting a MAG vice chair, Jon Wilmer, who has resigned over the issue. I mention this to point out that continuing public diatribes can only create further damage in this organisation, and polarise opinion.

Human beings are complex animals, and when we form groups, organisations, associations etc; the traits that make up those complexities; ego, emotion, power, selfishness, aggrandisement, doubt, fear, humility, hubris etc, etc, play a powerful part in the stability or otherwise of any collective. Which is one reason why a system of justice, negotiation and arbitration has been developed to intercede when relationships, perceptions and meanings become obscured and misinterpreted.

MAG's constitution provides a structure for membership democracy through a system of regional representation, a national committee, a Board to oversee the finances, and an annual meeting where the structure can be held to account and elections and voting takes place. But the 'civil war' that is being fought within the organisation as a result of the outcome of the tribunal and the protagonists continuing to justify their words and actions despite the ruling, feels like it might be the beginning of the end for MAG.

What also comes to light in episodes such as this is the 'personality wars', jockeying for position, attempted power grabs and score settling that have led up to this point. Much of it being played out on social media. Will people still be reaching for their cheque books to renew membership? Will any potential corporate sponsors want to be linked with MAG in the near future? What impression is left with thousands of riders who are not members and who the organisation would like to recruit?

The MAG website mentions a membership figure of 50,000 made up from individual, corporate and club affiliation subscriptions. In the minutes of their Annual General Conference in 2012 individual membership was quoted by Paddy Tyson as standing at 10,500 – 39,500 is a lot of club and corporate members.

The other rider membership organisation, the BMF, is now virtually moribund. Chris Hodder the BMF campaign person resigned recently (but they are recruiting). They have had nothing on their website about campaigns and issues since 2012, feeding what there is through brief Facebook messages, and have been reduced to a rump producing a quarterly magazine and the BMF shows which are organised by an events company.

Both of these organisations have been in existence for a long time and are in dire need of new personnel and a shake up of purpose. Truth be told though there isn't room for two national rider organisations in the UK, and any motorcyclists who care about this issue have known it for years. But I suspect that the 'democratic deficit' i.e. people not giving a damn about 'politics' will prevent any moves towards any significant revival of MAG or BMF, or any alternative.


No doubt the two national rider organisations will stagger on, both claiming to be the UK's largest and bigging up their roles and meagre achievements. It will be sad to see, and motorcycling, not exactly in the best of situations in terms of attracting new and younger riders and enthusiasts, deserves better.

[Rogerborg]

Weird that the most detailed (and insightful) reportage is coming from WeMoto of all places. Do I get my next set of brake pads from MCN?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[ficedula]

It was kind of noticeable that in the current issue of MCM they did have a mention of MAG ... specifically, some publicity drive Lembit is running.

Yes, yes, they're ad funded, they can't afford to bite any hand that might throw them a few pennies, but seriously.
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Bike history: YBR125 -> XJ600

[mentalboy]

Well, I was going to unsubscribe to the bizarre emails from MAG that keep dropping in my inbox - but I'm glad I haven't yet, they just keep the magic coming.

Today MAG have informed me of their latest campaign.
What is it you say?
...Slippery manhole covers?
...Biker awareness?
... Silly EU directives?
...The good old fall back -helmets?

NO, Motorcycle Action Group would like it's members to.....

Like a song on Facebook to help the singer get lots of likes!!! WTF
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Make mine a Corona.

[Rogerborg]

Now, now, that's not entirely accurate.

They've also demanded that we spam "3 friends and everyone you know" to ask them to Faceache it as well.

And to pre-order it on iTunes.

And get "3 friends and family members to do the same".

https://www.stranger-music.com

Best bit?

There's not one word, not one hint, about what this has to do with biking.


[UPDATE]
Hang on...

[mentalboy]

OK, so I omitted a few bits but I think I managed to find the essential meaning within the whole message.

(You actually took time out to listen to it, Roger??? I just assumed that it wouldn't have anything to do with biking issues )
____________________
Make mine a Corona.

[Rogerborg]

Heck, no, I'm not going to crank up the gramophone. My point is that the missive just says "Like-buy this because like-buy this".

Why? It could be some White Power hate-rap, or worse, a Bryan Adams tribute anthem.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[WD Forte]

Just got two identical emails with a sermon witterin on about rafts, rivers and spacemen.............
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[Rogerborg]

Ah, another Meandering Mutch Missive. I won't (literally) bore anyone with it.

This is the, uh, like-buy-music-thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVBvjyu5WrQ

Still baffled. What's this strutting twunt got to do with biking?

[thx1138]