Anyone heard of bike schools with hidden charges/extra terms

[DiggerHD]

After I arrived at my cbt in Motherwell near glasgow for my cbt the instructor decided that me and the two other guys were needing to come back. ( no fall offs , no drops etc ) and as it was 4pm we wouldn't have enough time to get out on the road run.


I went back next date I could arrange, and as I had read the laminated ( not anywhere on website ) T&C I was aware of an extra £30 they would require...wasn't best pleased , so discussed with good few bikers I know any NOT ONE said they'd heard of such a practice....

I even called prior to my second visit to query and was told ' well that's a space someone could be in doing a cbt at £130'

Anyone have thoughts on this ? I deliberately haven't named the school... ( unaware if authorised as I'm new )

Still pissed about it

[Val]

it is very common practice sometime if the instructor is not happy about letting you on the road to ask you to come the next day for little additional training before signng your CBT.
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[DiggerHD]

[Teflon-Mike]

The schools are independent commercial organisations, like mobile phone providers, they all have thier own pricing policy & structure.

CBT is not a fixed duration course; the sylabus is set by the DSA, who authorise the school (ATB) to issue a DL196 'completion' certificate.

I don't know what the DSA charge these days, but, when was instructing was something £2,ooo for a book of 100 blank certs; so at least £20 of your course price, has gone, before you paid it, straight t DSA for the certificate you ent yet earned.

At £130, I'm guessing that included bike hire; again, before you paid a penny, school had to buy a bike for you to ride; what another £2K or so.. tax it, insure it, expensively, on commercial policy for 'any' unqualified rider.. then maintain it, and fix it should a student drop it... commercial bike hire, like the insurance companies use to give you a 'courtesy-bike' if you have been brought off, charge around £60 a day....

So, over half your course fee has been used up, by the DSA certificate cost, and bike hire, before the School get round to paying thier overheads; advertising, administration, public liability insurance, rent on an 'off-road' training ground meeting DSA requirements.... THEN, they might think about paying an instructor to teach you....

As said, CBT is a course, of no fixed duration; DSA guidelines suggest it a typical student ought be able to complete it within eight hours, bit provides that the instructor should go at the students own pace... and some students will need more.

Of the eight 'suggested' hours, at least for should be on the bike, two of them mandatory for the 'on-road' training, while DSA also stipulate a student / instructor ratio of no more than 2:1 for on-road and 4:1 off-road.... this means that a one man band cant take more than two students per course, or they would have to leave some-one behind on the road ride, and even larger schools, cant really get more than three students per instructor through 'on average'.

SO! Three Students, each paying £130 = £390, per instructor; three full day bike hires, take £180 out of that, three DL196's take another £60 (or more). Leaves £150... to pay an instructor for eight hours+ work... that's less than £20 per hour... Oh!But he'll have expenses; HE has to have a bike, and gear too.. another £60?

You are paying a 'professional' to do a job, outside, in all weathers, working 'unsociable' hours, usually on the week-ends, and seasonally, when people want to ride motorbikes....

And they can, at BEST hope to make just about as much per hour, when the work's there, as doing no-brain shelf stacking in TESCO's......

And you BEGRUDGE him asking, less than £10 an hour, for 'extra-training'.... including bike hire? Because YOU didn't pick it up so quick?

No, its not uncommon, and some schools, if you don't complete in the day, expect a full repeat course-fee for another day. You are, less the £20 DSA cert cost, using exactly the same resources of the business, whether you complete or not.

Some schools, will offer 'one fee - train till you pass', but look at the numbers again; to account for students that do require extra, they are either gong to have to charge a lot more to start with, or they will have to cut corners elsewhere, or start adding more pernicious 'hidden charges'.

So, no, its not unusual to be charged extra for extra training, and a mere extra £30, if that include a morning's bike hire? Well, that barely covers the cost of the bike hire! If not, it's still barely minimum wage for the blokes time to train you, so hardly 'unreasonable', let alone extortion!
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[Wonko The Sane]

I can understand where you're coming from with "hang on, paying extra?"

Teff has pretty much summed it up, every time a training centre's bike is started the puff of exhaust smoke is a small stack of £20 notes going up in smoke!

Think of it this way, you paid for an 8 hour training session with certificate at the end of it if you attained a certain standard.

Unfortunately you didn't attain the required standard and need a couple of hours extra training which does carry extra cost - the school should ideally have told you, but it's hard to say "oh, yeh, if you don't pass it'll be £XX to come back tomorrow and finish off" without demotivating trainees and making it more likely they will end up doing so.

The training school I know and recommend do charge for a second day / morning's training to complete CBT, if you're doing a set of training (going for DAS, A1 or A2) they'll just work it into the time you've booked and paid for.

It's easier to work out how much training someone with a CBT will need to get their licence as they can already ride so a 20 min assessment gives a good idea of how long a candidate needs, you can't do this with a CBT as the candidate has never been on a bike before.
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Looking to pass your CBT / Bike tests in Bury Lancashire? try www.focusridertraining.co.uk Would recommend.
They're also on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Focus-Rider-Training/196832923734251

[Skudd]

It would be better if they were more up front about it all. It does seem a bit "Ryan Air" about it all.
This is where a course for an advertised set fee and set time schedule falls down.
When my now ex-wife did her CBT there did seem to be a lot of down time that wasn't being used to the full, but she did go back at no extra cost.
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[Rogerborg]

[Cadbury]

[pinkyfloyd]

Most places around our area charge for an extra few hours at another day if you do not make the grade. As far as I know our school is the only one in the local area that offers an extra few hours another day free. If you do not get the standard by then you have to pay.

Lets look at the costs. A CBT with us will set you back £110 and the day starts at 9am and normally gets finished around 3-4pm so between 6 and 7 hours. Much like Teffers has said, those certificate books are expensive. Bike hire, Insurance, Overheads. instructor fee etc.

Now, compare your £110 to a 6 hour driving lesson. Most places are charging an average of £25 per hour. So theres £150 right away. So the actual cost of a CBT is relative if not cheaper than driving lessons.

We are upfront about the days training and explain they may not get the required standard in one day and if they do have to come back they will get a few hours extra at no charge but anything after that is extra.

The only other expense we have is an insurance excess which is signed at the start. As far as I know most places are the same. You agree to cover the excess if there is an accident which is your fault or replacement parts up to the value of the excess.
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[Kamikaze Bob]

[CaNsA]

[chris-red]

It's likely the £30 is for the extra bike hire, AFAIK a CBT is a flat fee for training, however the use of the bike is what costs you. If you did it on your own bike it would likely be free.
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Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
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[kerr]

As said above its fairly common practice, some charge extra some don't.

As roger said as long as they havnt fanny'd about and you genuinely need more training then its par for the course.
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[DrDonnyBrago]

Save your anger for when you do your staged licence(s).

[DiggerHD]

[DiggerHD]

[DiggerHD]

[CaNsA]

[Rogerborg]

[DiggerHD]

[CaNsA]

[DiggerHD]

[Ste]

in b4 f&fw

[Tamsin]

Cansa is a joker??

I don think so, but he can sniff out morons like a bloodhound and wont take shit from whiny little bitches. That is why we like him

[FretGrinder]