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moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Jul 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 01:43 - 23 Jan 2015 Post subject: |
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G wrote: | First off - - I forgot that of course LiFePo4 chemistry is Lithium Iron.
However, to save some face I should note that typically I believe they are heavier than Lithium Ion, but should have a significantly longer shelf life.
Not sure what's up with yours. For a while now I've been using a LiPo (lithium polymer) RC plane helicopter style battery to start my van (have got some replacement lead acid batteries for van, but want to set them up to also be used as leisure batteries.)
It's a little bit taller than a coke can, but under half the cross section and starts my 2.2td van fine. | I bought it because it claimed to have higher cranking amps and a lighter weight, frankly it is a pile of crap as the entire base of the battery casing has expanded to the extent that it looks like it is about to blow, I bought the charger/diagostic reader as well which is pretty useless as the battery is so crap it will not read the results, hence my problem with getting a replacement battery, avoid these batteries at all costs, expensive crap I would call them compared to the 28.00 quid sealed lead/acid I replaced it with. |
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
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moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Iain. |
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Iain. Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 04 Dec 2014 Karma :
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Posted: 13:58 - 24 Jan 2015 Post subject: |
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I sell JMT lithium batteries.
A few of our staff use them on daily riders with no issues. They come through a lot smaller then the lead acid battery, and come with stick on sponge pads to space them out. Battery level indicator on the top is pretty trick. The weight thing is just straight up weird though...we ran the first one on an RXV550 and genuinely diddn't think it'd fire it, but absolutely zero greif with it. Have seen a YB4 sized lithium spin over a GSX750F with no greif on a customers streetfighter, he used it daily before writing it off after around six months and I can confirm it still cranked when we assessed it.
The problem is you need a specific lithium charger to charge them with off the mains & the battery voltage cannot at any point drop below a certain point without frying it. Part number for the JMP800 charger is 609.24.80, more expensive variants are availible...but if you plan on pissing £300 on a charger for home use you've got issues
Blurb from supplier about a YTX9-BS;
Quote: | Lithium-ion batteries by JMT, High-technology for your motorcycle.
The latest generation of batteries are identified by the red cover.
Spacer (S)
Batteries may be equipped with one or more spacers that are taped with adhesive tape under the battery so that the battery fits exactly into the original battery box.
Indicator (I)
All batteries are equipped with a battery condition indicator.
Simply press the test button. When all three blue LEDs light up the battery is fully charged(ful). If it lights only 2 LEDs, it is only half charged (med). When only one LED is lit (low), the battery must be charged immediately.
Replacing a standard lead-acid battery by a JMT lithium-ion batter can save you up to up to 5 kg in weight with minimum effort.
JMT lithium-ion batteries have the following benefits:
- About 1/3 of the weight of comparable lead acid battery
- Unbeatable ratio of cost/weight savings
- Can be mounted in any position - no acid spillage
- Does not contain heavy metals
- Balanced discharge/charge of all cells by the integral balancer
- Fast charging with high ampage systems (up to 90% fully charged in only 6 minutes)
- Very low self-discharge - long shelf life (up to 5% per month)
- Excellent performance at high temperatures (even up to
60° C)
- Safe technology and high durability
Lead-acid batteries only use 30% of their capacity
whilst nearly 100% of the capacity of lithium-ion batteries is used. For this reason, lithium versions of JMT batteries need only 1/3 of the capacity of a comparable lead-acid battery for the same starting power.
A uniform charging of all the cells is ensured by a built-in processor (the "balancer").
The dimensions of the lithium-ion batteries (using adapters where necessary)correspond to the dimensions of the original lead-acid batteries and the connections are identical, thus the battery can be replaced easily in a few minutes.
*** IMPORTANT ***
Please note that only suitable battery chargers are used, such as the JMP 800, JMP 4000 or the corresponding workshop equipment. Please ensure that a compatible charger is used as a wrong charger will invalidate the 2 year warranty.
For fast charging, we recommend the JMP 30000 workshop unit. With this a lithium-ion battery can be charged up to 90% within 6 minutes. For the maximum recommended charging currents please refer to the technical data below.
In no case must chargers be use that have a de-sulphate mode for deeply discharged batteries (i.e showing 10 volts or less) These chargers use an output of more than 14.9 volts before they begin the actual charging cycle.
The maximum charging voltage of 14.9 volts must not be exceeded in any case, as in extreme circumstances there can be a danger of explosion.
Although this lightweight battery is extremely suitable for everyday use, it should be noted that the starting capacity is reduced at temperatures below zero degrees Celsius.
Technology - JMT lithium-ion batteries are manufactured using a cathode material of iron phosphate (LiFePO4) and lithium-polymer.
The technology and the manufacturing process ensure the highest safety standard for lithium batteries.
- 12 V maintenance-free lithium-ion battery
- Energy 36 Wh
- Dimensions in mm 150x87x105
- Recommended charging current 1.5 A
- Maximum charging current for fast charging 15 A
- Weight 0.6 kg
- Starting current 180 A
Comparable in dimensions and connections with:
Yuasa Fact.-No. YTX9-BS |
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cb1rocket |
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cb1rocket World Chat Champion
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G The Voice of Reason
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Iain. |
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Iain. Could Be A Chat Bot
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Aff |
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Aff World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 May 2011 Karma :
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Posted: 17:51 - 24 Jan 2015 Post subject: |
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I can understand if the inbuilt circuitry cant regulate/rectify 240V and can only handle a small DC range based around 12V. But surely that just means the off the bike charger has to be a simple 12V power brick.
Edit: Just looked up the charger and it appears that it is 50 quid, also charges lead and comes with a permanent pigtail for the bike. so seems a bit more reasonable. ____________________ Current Bikes:Honda 929RR Fireblade, Honda CD200 Benly (Project), Stomp Z2 140
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moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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G The Voice of Reason
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Aff |
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Aff World Chat Champion
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moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Aff World Chat Champion
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moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Aff World Chat Champion
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Aff World Chat Champion
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Posted: 18:16 - 28 Jan 2015 Post subject: |
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So Moonzoomer kindly sent out the dead battery and I took it apart tonight.
It's hard to show on the camera but the bottom is considerably bowed.
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0210_zpsifune5x8.jpg
This pic shows the connections, two standard terminals and a JST balance port in the middle. This doesn't look promising on the on board BMS front.
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0211_zps99cfmc1f.jpg
Was easy enough to break the top free with a chisel. Inside is what I expected, a board for the JST balance connector and the main power wires (2 pairs of 12AWG). The cells look to be standard pouch cells.
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0212_zpsf9pebpoz.jpg
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0213_zpsqmtd29zc.jpg
The case was very sturdy and hard to get into, the cells were held in with a very strong, solid epoxy. I managed to cut one of the sides off so that I could lever out the cells.
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0214_zpsshyyrqmy.jpg
The epoxy didn't break, it just ripped the heatshrink off the cells.
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0215_zps3aosrlck.jpg
They were rather puffy.
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0216_zpsiajoakmf.jpg
As I cut the bondage tape holding them together they exploded apart with a loud bang. There was a lot of built up pressure.
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0217_zpsu4ootcag.jpg
As you can see NO BMS!!
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0218_zpsdbtew5gu.jpg
https://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/Biles/IMG_0219_zpsuu1xtuge.jpg
So the configuration is 4S2P (~2Ah cells). With LiFePo4's that means a hot voltage of 14.6V, so they are obviously trying to get away without a Battery Management System by having the hot voltage "lower" than the output of the bike. This is a terrible idea. These cells would have been getting a massivly varying voltage, likely higher than they needed fairly often, so its no wonder they died.
I will update with some charging results later, but imaging they are all very dead after their ordeal.
I cant believe this company is charging so much for this. It is badly designed and it would be surprising if any of the ones they sold, that went on a bike with a charging system, lasted more than a month.
It would cost hardly anything to put a BMS on this. But I suppose then they couldn't charge 50 quid for their charger.
Also the battery says 210CCA and I'm pretty sure these arent going to be 60C cells, more likely to be cheap Chinese crap so actually starting the bike was probably killing them too. ____________________ Current Bikes:Honda 929RR Fireblade, Honda CD200 Benly (Project), Stomp Z2 140
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G The Voice of Reason
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Iain. |
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Iain. Could Be A Chat Bot
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Posted: 11:03 - 29 Jan 2015 Post subject: |
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That's not a JMT battery. Unsure what charger required for that.
JMT batteries don't have the plug to charge from, you charge from the standard connectors. The JMT also has a battery test indicator in the top of it.
If I get a dead one I'll dismantle it, but so far I've had no failiures even over winter. |
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moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
There is a gap of 1 year, 49 days between these two posts... |
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Hetzer |
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Hetzer Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
There is a gap of 226 days between these two posts... |
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B5234FT |
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B5234FT Brolly Dolly
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 219 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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