|
|
| Author |
Message |
| grr666 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
grr666
Super Spammer
Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Karma :  
|
 Posted: 10:03 - 24 Feb 2015  Post subject: |
 |
|
Rukka.
/thread
____________________
Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.  |
|
| Back to top |
  |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Copycat73 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Copycat73
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Skudd |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Skudd
Super Spammer
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Twofish |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Twofish
Nova Slayer
Joined: 17 Feb 2015
Karma :  
|
| Posted: 13:25 - 24 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
|
|
Wish I could find the links to the evidence now...but 'scientific' tests (i.e. tests in non-real-life situations just so they can replicate them identically for each material) have shown that only one fabric has better abrasion resistance than leather - superfabric.
Some manufacturers are adding superfabric to their textiles now, but they're expensive top of the range stuff. A Gore-Tex jacket with superfabric on the shoulders and elbows could be £500 - £700. A lot of textile gloves have it though.
It's not just about abrasion, and that's only one type of accident. It's also about the quality of the stitching, level of armour etc etc.
Go into a store and read the labels on all the clothes. They will all tell you the type and level of armour, many will show in a sliding scale how abrasion-resistant the material is.
Check here for CE saftey standards https://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-clothing/motorcycle-clothing-safety-standards.htm
Like wot someone else said, properly-fitting clothes are safer than really expensive ones that don't fit because then they will stay put etc. but still allow you to move in the right way.
Zipping trousers and jacket together is also good if you come off because if you're going feet-first your jacket won't slide up. And it stops draughts. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| ScaredyCat |
This post is not being displayed .
|
ScaredyCat
World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 May 2012
Karma : 
|
Posted: 14:47 - 24 Feb 2015  Post subject: |
|
|
This 'data' seems to be floating around quite a few sites, make of it what you will. Might at least be a guide.
How Far Something Can Drag on Asphalt Before You Hit Skin:
"Samples were stitched to a bag that held a 75-pound sandbag inside a milk crate, then dragged behind a pickup truck..."
New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans -------------------- 3' 10"
Balistic Nylon ------------------------------------- 3' 10"
Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz/sq. ft. --- 4' 3"
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz/sq ft. ------------- 4' 4"
Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------ 4' 5"
440D Cordura Nylon ------------------------------- 18' 3"
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ------------------ 22' 1"
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz/sq. ft. ---------- 86' 0"
Tear and Abrasion Strength:
CottonJeans ----------------- 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
70 Denier Standard Nylon----- 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
500 Denier Polyester---------- 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
200 Denier Standard Nylon---- 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
500 Denier Cordura----------- 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
620 Denier Cordura----------- 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
Competition Grade Leather---- 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
1000 Denier Cordura---------- 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
Kevlar----------------------- 1260 pounds to tear 970 cycles to failure
Abrasion Strength - Taber Industries:
"The specimen was mounted on a rotating platform and scuffed by two rubber-emery grinding wheels." The numbers represent the
number of revolutions until the fabric totally fails.
Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ---- 168
New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------- 225
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ----------- 506
440 D Cordura Nylon ------------------------559
Leather, Lightweight, 2.25 oz./sq. ft.-------- 564
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz./sq. ft. -----750
Senior Ballistic Nylon ------------------------817
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz./sq. ft. --- 2600
Seconds of Drag on Asphalt Before Getting Holes:
Denim ---------------------------------0.2 to 0.5
Textile gloves -------------------------0.6
Most leather gloves---------------------1.0 to 1.8
Keprotec stretch material---------------0.9
Poor Kevlar-----------------------------1.0
Two layers of waxed cotton------------ 1.3
1.3mm thick cow hide ------------------3.8
Two layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide------18
Three layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide-----55
Two layers of Kevlar plain weave---------5.6
Suede ---------------------------------18
Boot leather (generally 2.2mm thick)-----20
Leather stretch panels------------------20.4
____________________
Honda CBF125 ➝ NC700X
Honda CBF125 ↳ Speed Triple |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
|
| Posted: 17:26 - 24 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
|
|
| Skudd wrote: | As with all kit, get what fits and what you ca afford. Build it up over the years for all the weathers you need to ride in. Having spare gear is always a good thing. |
Snowie (& I suspect Mrs Borg, amogst many many others) may have other opinions on that; especially as Snowie was trying to do that woman thing of 'Making Space'.. in a wardrobe, this week-end.
Always vexes me that one; 'Making Space'.. it's like they seem to believe we can deploy some Marvel Comic Super-Power to defy the laws of the universe and bend the time-space continuum at will, and bring the edges of the universe, where it is continually expanding, inside the house, by (risking life and limb) putting up a shelf!... but anyway....
I was confronted with a life-times collection of accumulated motorcycle gear on Saturday, and interrogation, as each garment was held up in evidence and the question "So When was the Last Time you wore THIS!?" repeated until my head hurt....
A rather disturbing revelation of the exercise, after reaching the bottom of the pile, was when foolishly, I asked "So where's the rest of it?"... and missing the nuance in the reply "WHAT! You mean there's MORE!!!!!!!!!" a-n-d even more foolishly saying, "Yeah! Where's my Scott Riding Jacket? My Frank-Thomas over-suit... and...."... that was as far as I got.... I was about to start 'phoning No.1-Son, and various other 'suspects' who may have 'borrowed' the missing items... but was deterred with a large cross-braced wooden coat-hanger being tapped menacingly on the draws...
Eventually, nature takes its course and the 'most useful' and 'most used' garments float to the front of the wardrobe; or even the hooks by the front door; the less useful and less used, sink to the back of the wardrobe, this natural ranking pretty much completely detached from each garment's potential level of 'crash protection'....
Or perhaps not... the tailor-made one-piece WAS right at the back... as its such a bludy cumbersome and awkward garment, that requires you strip down to a pair of briefs and a thin t-shirt, before you spend longer than you do 'on track' in a typical clubbie race. wriggling into the ruddy thing. Its NOT the first garment you reach for to pop to the shops, or even potter out for a days sight seeing. An idea further deterred by the fact that unless you are sat in a 'race crouch' it's not even that comfortable, and if you aren't on a bike at all; if you parked up on Matlock Prom and tried walkig to the ice-cream kiosk.. you'd be ordering your ninety nine in a falcetto!
| stinkwheel wrote: | I have no statistics to back it up but I'd say from my years of experience, there are times where a good set of totally unarmoured but effective waterproofs and a set of thermal underwear offer more crash protection than the most expensive, bespoke armoured leathers.
If you're cold and wet, you're inattentive. |
And supporting Stinks assertion here; of the stuff on the 'Missing' list, that had floated to the very top of the 'most useful' and 'most used' list, were an Arran fisherman's Sweater; a pair of thin waterproof over trousers; a pair of thicker, lined & quilted waterproof over trousers, and a pair of spare gloves; that were folded into the bottom of the tank-bag.. neatly providing a 'soft base' for anything bunged in the bag, while also being 'on hand' if needed, if it gets colder or wetter or windier, OR half a pair of gloved got dropped, whilst out.
Further supporting Stinks suggestion, and Skudds; I have examined many many a crashed riding outfit; from cheap and nasty to fancy and expensive.. a fact that has informed MY opinion to not put MUCH faith in the merits of modern riding gear's 'protection' over common bludy sense! There is VERY little correlation between 'cost' and 'protection'...
At the school, we had a very fancy top of the line, name-brand 'off the peg' race suit, that was completely tattered, and left its wearer visiting out-patients by taxi for a month, after a mere 30mph 'off'.... I had an old Ski-Jacket (think Bucks Fizz) from the '80's, made before such fancy materials as 'Thinsulate' or 'Cordura', that was simply thick cotton, quilted and stuffed with felt, that in a 60mph 'off' a relative had in the 250 Learner Days, saw him get up with out a scratch, simply by dint of having a 'bulk' of material to provide 'padding'.. and be there to get worn away by abrasion....was comfy too, and warm.
Personally... only 'off' of note, I have had in twenty five years or more.. (actually I think it'll be 24 years ago this August) YES, I was wearing Jeans & BLJ.. with a one-piece waterproof over-suit over the top... I was travelling at something over 50mph when I went down, and I got up and pulled the bike out the hedge.... most severe injury I suffered was not bruising or broken bones from any lack of 'armour', nor was it missing flesh from lack of 'abrasion resistance'.. but BURNS, from friction.....
Somewhat remarkably, the over-suit suffered just two small 'holes', which I patched with a tent repair kit, to carry on using for another decade.
IF and WHEN, the small extra 'abrasion resistance' of cordura or leather over, whatever, becomes even slightly 'relevant'.. its GONNA HURT regardless, and a few extra miliseconds before 'holing' the specs might vaunt, pretty accademic..
Meanwhile; back to my burns; while every-one is so concerned about 'armour' and 'abrasion'.. twenty off years ago, when they first started to consider 'standards' for motorcycle protective apparel beyond the crash helmet.. noted, and then as so often ignored was this 'friction burn' issue; was observed in a lot of instances that leathers, with a high acrylic content lining material, often survived a crash very well, without wearing through or holing, BUT the wearer DID suffer injury from melted nylon; also noted that when the leather did give out, while minimising the area of 'road-rash' severity of what was suffered was aggravated by man-made fibre, in the wound, and attempts to remove it... cotton, silk, linen, 'natural' fibres can all be broke down by the bodies natural enzymes... remind me again what the 'base' textile in Cordura is?
Hmm... food for thought here; the stuff was originally developed as a re-enforcing fabric in the construction of car tyres, an alternate to natural fibre canvases in the 1930's..... it's not ACTUALLY a specific 'material', its a brand name for a range of synthetic fabrics.. only SOME of which may have equal abrasion resistance properties to some leather..... when new.
But the stuff is basically NYLON.. a very tough man-made fibre with a very high tensile strength, compared to natural fibres such as linen or cotton.... and while its not broken down very easily by natural biological agents.... hmm.. it IS deteriorated by sunlight and solvents.... Little food for thunk... what's in that bit of metal just between your legs when you are riding a motorbike? What's coming out of the 'vent' that lets the air in as what's inside comes out? What is that coming out of the back of that bus in front of you? And what is in that squibby bottle you are squirting at it, to get the shit that came out the back of the bus, off with?
IF you care to look into the subject of 'motorcycle safety' as a entirety, rather than letter-boxing little bits of it, its far more involved and has a huge complexity of competing dynamics and variables, that can make a utter mockery of the presumptions you might make when trying to by by label, NOT common sense, worse putting faith in that 'off the peg' safety rather than... err yup... comon bludy SENSE!
Common sense that' so uncommon.....
Take 5% off your travelling speed, roughly staying two under the sped limit rather than two over... first, reduces chance you WILL come off, making space and time to react ad avoid an off, But if it's still not 'enough'; 5% off travelling speed can be worth 50% off 'impact' speed.. and THAT means you wont hit whatever might be hit so hard or fast, and will increase the 'effectiveness' of whatever you are wearing by FAR greater % than the small differences claimed protection different 'gear' might suggest they offer.
Safety STILL comes from what's in your head, not what you might stick on it.
And back to them shelves... in the greater scheme of things we don't don industrial hard hats to put up shelves in the kitchen, or police riot gear to go down the pub..... activities that actually have a far higher risk of actual 'injury', with very similar risks of injury severity to legally operating a powered-two-wheel vehicle, on the public road!
IF it is so socially acceptable, to promote DIY every bank-holiday week-end and trips to IKEA or Wicks or Home Base or whatever, to buy step-ladders and electric drills and the like, or to advocate a 'nice night out with your mates'.. how the FUCK is it "irresponsible" or 'Socially Unacceptable' to ride a fucking motorbike in a pair of jeans, or a pair of shorts?
But that takes the topic off on another tangent.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| finchy95 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
finchy95
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 26 Jan 2015
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| stinkwheel |
This post is not being displayed .
|
stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma : 
|
Posted: 18:58 - 24 Feb 2015  Post subject: |
|
|
| finchy95 wrote: | Had the misfortune to fall off in 1000d cordura combat trousers once, no kevlar, armour etc. Lost a big chunk of my right knee and was probably only doing 30-35mph |
Now let us know what you hit.
I've seen road rash and what's in your picture is not road rash.
Incidentally. I'm feeling incredibly smug having just got an utter ebay bargain for my bike gear. My 15 year old, no brand leather jacket I bought for £60 at a rally is starting to get a little raggedy.
I put a cheeky bid on a second hand bellstaff jacket, the one I'd always wanted when I was younger but could never afford. From back when Bellstaff made top quality bike gear and wasn't a fashion label. Got it for £63. Arrived today and it's brand new, never been worn.
So putting my money where my mouth is. I wear a straightforward "biker" leather jacket. Made of heavy duty, double-stitched leather. Keeps me warm. Is going to give me reasonable abrasion protection in the case of an accident, is practical to wear and is comfortable. Can be worn as a normal jacket too. Has pockets for earplugs, spare HT lead, phone etc.
If it's raining, I put a waterproof neoprene smock over the top (designed for farmers to milk cows in). If it looks like it's going to REALLY rain, I put on a thick, PVC fishermans jacket over the top.
I usually wear either a pair of army combat trousers of some kevelar re-inforced cargo trousers. I sometimes wear my leather jeans but a) They are uncomfy to walk about in and b) I tend to ride much faster in them, they give a false sense of security*. Army issue gore-tex trousers and gaiters over the top of either if it's raining.
Merino base-layers for the cold and because I too have sat picking threads of polyester lining fabric out of friction burn scars with a needle months after a crash that barely marked the outer layer.
*Risk compensation. Try riding at 70mph with no helmet on. You wouldn't do it for long or on many days both due to the cold and the sense of risk. Your 1" piece of polystyrene gives you the undeserved confidence to ride WAY faster than you otherwise would.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| finchy95 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
finchy95
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 26 Jan 2015
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| amararose |
This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.
|
amararose
Banned
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Karma :
|
| Posted: 12:18 - 04 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
|
|
You can take help from online dealers who also provide clothing and accessories services. They provide best clothing according to your requirements.
Scooter dealers london |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| andyscooter |
This post is not being displayed .
|
andyscooter
World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 May 2009
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| finchy95 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
finchy95
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 26 Jan 2015
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| el_oso |
This post is not being displayed .
|
el_oso
World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 May 2008
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| vladthetodge |
This post is not being displayed .
|
vladthetodge
Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 03 Mar 2015
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| vladthetodge |
This post is not being displayed .
|
vladthetodge
Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 03 Mar 2015
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| grr666 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
grr666
Super Spammer
Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Karma :
|
Posted: 00:25 - 05 Mar 2015  Post subject: |
|
|
^^^
Sounds like Tef 
____________________
Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Commuter_Tim |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Commuter_Tim
World Chat Champion
Joined: 09 May 2013
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Val |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Val
World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| charliefirpo |
This post is not being displayed .
|
charliefirpo
Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :
|
| Posted: 13:52 - 06 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
|
|
That doesn't mean that the garment has failed CE testing though, just that the manufacturer hasn't bothered paying for it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
|
| Posted: 16:37 - 06 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
|
|
| Rogerborg wrote: | That doesn't mean that the garment has failed CE testing though, just that the manufacturer hasn't bothered paying for it. |
CE 'Marking', though is just that, adding a label.
There is no such thing as CE 'approval'. CE Marking requirements simply state that a retailer must CE Mark goods law says they must; like kids toys or home electronics; there's no CE 'Safety' Standard.
The Safety Standards are issued by national standards agencies such as BSI or DIN, which may be 'adopted' as international standards by the ISO... or EN for the EEC.
Standard that motorcycle armour MIGHT be tested to is EN1621...
But CE marking is merely a manufacturers declaration that the artefact meets EU trading standard; and meets any legally required standards to be sold for a certain purpose....
Other than Crash helmets, there are NO requirements for motorcycle apparel to meet ANY standards, beyond those for all cloths, such as their flame resistance...
A manufacturer can slap a CE lable on anything they like; they dont have to test anything; they certainly don't need to have anything tested by an independent 'approval' body, ALL they have to do, is print the label and attach it to the goods..... and maintain records.. SHOULD any of the enforcement agencies ever challenge them to 'justify' the 'Declaration of Conformance'.. that CE MARKING is.
That record, should include the CE proforma of requirements, and documentary evidence of why and how each requirement is BELIEVED to have been met... an independent test house test report might be a good way to answer that, B-U-T.. could also be a memo from some chap in the factory that basically says, 'looks good enough to me'.
And some-one called Jeans a Chocolate Tea-pot of safety!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Val |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Val
World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Karma :
|
| Posted: 16:53 - 06 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
|
|
| Rogerborg wrote: | That doesn't mean that the garment has failed CE testing though, just that the manufacturer hasn't bothered paying for it. |
Agree to disagree here the only reason big brands do not have CE safety testing is not the cost of testing, because many cheap cloth brands like RS do the testing, but the simple fact that most of so called "big brands" do the clothes in say Pakistan. Basically you pay for some supreficial brand not for real quality, which CE proves.
https://survivalskills.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/what-is-the-ce-standard-for-bike-clothing/
| Teflon-Mike wrote: | CE 'Marking', though is just that, adding a label.
There is no such thing as CE 'approval'. CE Marking requirements simply state that a retailer must CE Mark goods law says they must; like kids toys or home electronics; there's no CE 'Safety' Standard.
|
Absolutely not there is CE approval, CE is NOT just a labeling there are CE safety standards and you can see them all here:
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/personal-protective-equipment/index_en.htm
____________________
Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900 |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 9 years, 51 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|
Help & FAQs
Search BCF
Members
Groups
Events Calendar
rating
rating