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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 31 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

J0 wrote:

The men 'chose' to be with those types of women, need to accept the responsibility for the outcome of the decisions they made.


Yes, because all women show their true colours immediately upon meeting them.

I'll refer you to my earlier post.

Tungtvann wrote:

Devious! The lot of them.
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J0Al1
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 31 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tungtvann wrote:

Yes, because all people show their true colours immediately upon meeting them.


Generally, everyone shows their best side first.
Edit: Which is why rushing things is a bad idea.

Kids tend to give their parents a shitty time where they probably wouldn't a stranger. Human nature and subconscious.

Looking at my past, clues were always there form very early on! Being blind to them or ignoring them was my error.


Last edited by J0Al1 on 12:47 - 31 Mar 2015; edited 2 times in total
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petalbriefs
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 31 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tungtvann wrote:
J0 wrote:

The men 'chose' to be with those types of women, need to accept the responsibility for the outcome of the decisions they made.


Yes, because all women show their true colours immediately upon meeting them.

I'll refer you to my earlier post.

Tungtvann wrote:

Devious! The lot of them.


Well look who's becoming a bitter cynic after a couple of false starts! Razz

Have a daiquiri, it'll cheer you up Laughing
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 31 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:

I just thought that it would amuse the no-thanks-I'm-never-breeding brigade!


It did Thumbs Up

Stinkwheel's take on things was also interesting.


Many interesting things said. I can't add anything useful.

Some people are good, some people are bad, sometimes people move between the two. Men, woman, we can all be nice, or knobs.

That being said. Jezebel, Lady Macbeth and Katie Hopkins weigh heavily on the scales ......shit, sorry ladies, I talked about weight.

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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 31 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

J0 wrote:

Generally, everyone shows their best side first.
Edit: Which is why rushing things is a bad idea.

Which is why I'm glad I've avoided kids and marriage thus far!

petalbriefs wrote:

Well look who's becoming a bitter cynic after a couple of false starts! Razz

Becoming? I've always been one.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 31 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do continuously thank my luck at avoiding children up until now.

I feel like it could have easily happened, and I would be secure, but at 28 I am only just starting to mature in to the person I want to be.

Having that happen whilst worrying about mouths to feed and a physical bond to that partner that fell in love with the "you" you no longer like... that would be difficult.

I have nothing but admiration for single parents, it usually means they stood for something. Dared to dream they were worth more. Stood up for themselves and choose to say struggling is better than settling.

I admire the crap out of you. But I'm damn glad I'm not in the same boat.
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 01 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been meaning to post in this thread for a while.

Someone at work recently announced his wife was pregnant. "We should go congratulate him!" says my co-worker. What? Congratulations, you can empty your nuts into your wife's clunge.

Someone else's wife just had a baby. People were FALLING OVER EACH OTHER to show just how excited they were about this. They even passed a fucking collection envelope around.

Child support, I called it. Why are we giving them money because they had a baby?

"Oh, but you have to!"

Do I bollocks.

When someone else (the guy who'd just knocked his missus up) failed to pony up, they all clucked their tongues and shook their heads. They noticed what a bad person he was. They'll make sure not to pay for his baby when it shows up.
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 01 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was always against having kids, until I met my ex and her daughter. Kid was amazing. It was pretty cool teaching her things (even stupid things like fist bumping, and possibly a few swear words by mistake!).

Some kids I hate though. Exes sister's kid was a cunt, cried at everything. Another ex had a son, he was a cunt as well (same name thinking about it). All depends on how they are raised...shit parents = cunt of a kid.
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Robster
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 01 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bubbs wrote:
Robster wrote:
Slightly off-topic... but why do parents feel the need to take young babies on days out...?

For instance, went up to the Langdales t'other week, got to the top of Harrison Stickle, was passed by a young couple, the feller had a baby which was at the most maybe a year old strapped to his back - asleep i'll add...

I also remember when I went to Lake Louise in Canada years ago, saw a guy cross-country skiing across the frozen lake, towing a small sled behind him with a baby inside.

What is the point? it surely makes fuck all difference to the baby if they're cross-country skiing across a frozen lake, going up a mountain in the lakes, or just sat outside in their garden? like they're gonna remember anything.

Is it just because people can't find a babysitter? seems like a lot of extra work to me. I only remember holidays and days out from the age of about 5-6 years old.


I do this. I like fresh air and it knocks the baby out so I get peace while hiking. It's actually harder to stay at home with a baby than it is to take it out as you don't have to worry about entertaining them.


I definitely get the fresh air thing, but surely a stroll through a park on a sunny day and being chucked in a sandpit (not a bucket of warm sand) or going to the beach gets the same result?

Seems like a lot of effort buying all the bits you need to take care of a baby thing, lugging it half way up a mountain/across a frozen lake/though an active volcano etc.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 01 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't stand them in general, although I do enjoy playing with my nephew on the fairly rare occasions that I see him.

Having my own, 24 hours a day, having to wipe someone else's arse. No.

Luckily for me, although the wife likes the concept of having kids (producing a son for me), she hates dribble. Small children dribble a lot.

If I can make it through five more years she might give up on the idea.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 01 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:


If I can make it through five more years she might give up on the idea.


Sleep milking sir Wink
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 01 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robster wrote:
Slightly off-topic... but why do parents feel the need to take young babies on days out...?

What is the point? it surely makes fuck all difference to the baby if they're cross-country skiing across a frozen lake, going up a mountain in the lakes, or just sat outside in their garden? like they're gonna remember anything.


"I'm not going to let having a baby affect my awesome pre-baby lifestyle!," they declare, before bringing the grizzling sprog to pubs, restaurants, shops and such in a giant stroller that barely fits into the huge SUV they arrived in.

I was always bemused by young mother and father (sometimes just one) sitting in a beer garden smoking and drinking pints while junior thrashed and wailed against its restraints in the pushchair.

"What's the matter, Nathaniel?" said mater before plucking a single salt and vinegar from the splayed bag on the table and shoving it into its stupid snotty face.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 00:15 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh, I find it scariest to see the constant feeding they seem to be subjected to by grandparents and parents, before getting parked back in front of an ipad. Balls to the TV... Ipad.

Just. Fucking. Doomed.

So I commend those parents who are taking their kids outside. It is natural, it is right, and it shows good parenting.

If you want to have children, be aware it will consume your whole life, from then until the end of time. *

I don't begrudge any person from having kids. I just begrudge the expectation that I should have kids. Or, more importantly, that my happily not having kids future can be taken away from me at any point by a lapse in medication (accidental or otherwise), if I wish to have normal sexual relationships in future. And that sympathy received will be zero.

Unless I take the vasectomy route of course... which is quite a drastic step I grant you. And will probably close a lot of doors in relationships, unless I omit to tell, which seems like an utterly horrible thing to do.

So yeh, not much winning for us grumpy "not want kids" troupe.

MA, you seem rabidly opposed to kids. Any thoughts on vasectomy?



*They're either there, and annoying you. Or after they grow up you worry about them, and by then have a serious identity crisis to contend with.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I would get this tomorrow if it was available.

IVD

Anyone know anything about this?
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:


MA, you seem rabidly opposed to kids. Any thoughts on vasectomy?


Have thought about it. Am currently hearing tales through a friend of a guy having unforseen consequences from his.

Besides, Gary. That's nature's vasectomy.
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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd thought about having a vasectomy myself, but given my luck with women, conceding to having a child for the woman I want to spend my life with is a small price to pay. Luckily, it's not make or break for me, but I'm very indifferent about it.
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BigShow
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience people with no kids seem to possess a more potent strain of self centeredness. Probably as they are the most important thing in their life and everything they do revolves around themselves, I guess it's a natural side effect if all you have to think about is yourself and it's fine, no harm done.

I think having kids if nothing else knocks that illusion of your own self importance clean out of you. It's hard to think your the centre of the universe when changing shitty nappies at 3am.

Ultimately though this idea of self importance gets it in their heads that other people should put as much stock in what they think/say/do as they do, when in fact us parents are far too busy too listen to anyone spouting naïve bollocks.

And that's just it, unlike you we have existed on both sides of the fence, we literally do know more than you about it. We lived the exact life you live did everything you do and found it wanting, sorry.

Think I'm talking shit? Look back through this thread at the childless people talking about how awesome their life is. Who does it sound like they are trying to convince? Because I'm sure none of the parents on here give a shit if they have kids or not

Summary: if you like kids it's fine, if you don't like kids it's fine. it's not a competition
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigShow wrote:
From my experience people with no kids seem to possess a more potent strain of self centeredness. Probably as they are the most important thing in their life and everything they do revolves around themselves, I guess it's a natural side effect if all you have to think about is yourself and it's fine, no harm done.

I think having kids if nothing else knocks that illusion of your own self importance clean out of you. It's hard to think your the centre of the universe when changing shitty nappies at 3am.

Ultimately though this idea of self importance gets it in their heads that other people should put as much stock in what they think/say/do as they do, when in fact us parents are far too busy too listen to anyone spouting naïve bollocks.

And that's just it, unlike you we have existed on both sides of the fence, we literally do know more than you about it. We lived the exact life you live did everything you do and found it wanting, sorry.

Think I'm talking shit? Look back through this thread at the childless people talking about how awesome their life is. Who does it sound like they are trying to convince? Because I'm sure none of the parents on here give a shit if they have kids or not

Summary: if you like kids it's fine, if you don't like kids it's fine. it's not a competition


Really interesting post Thumbs Up

I think that you have a good point about us trying to convince ourselves/others about this.

I also think that because we are going against the norm, it does become something you do feel you need to push back harder on. Also, it's a bit biased; only a monster publicly states they regret having kids (if any risk the kids would find out).

But you are right, we are a bunch of self-centred gits Laughing

My main concern, rather than money, is stress. I wish to start reaching a point in my life with less stress, not more. More time, not less. I can then use that lack of stress, and free time, to be able to help people in the community... with clearly delineated times of "me time" "me and partner time" "me and other people" time.

It's tempting to simply think we want to jet off to somewhere nice 3 times a year forever, but for me that isn't really the motivation.

Glad the world has people who want/enjoy the responsibility. Glad we have those that don't. Just wish the first group would stop telling the second group we are immature/wrong and will grow up one day (hence the pushing back, perhaps).

*waits another 5 years until suddenly under a mountain of children*
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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I know me and my wife are selfish. Not ideal parent material then really.
We have some friends with teenage boys coming to stay over this weekend. Friends from my old life
back in London before I moved to Bristol. Haven't seen them for over 3 years since our wedding and although
I'm looking forward to seeing my friends, I'm dreading the idea of having their children in my house.
Last time they visited they left the kids at home, but we get the whole shooting match this time.
Already the food which we had planned to make while they were here has to be re bought as apparently their
kids don't eat actual food so two days of sausages beans and chicken dippers seems to be on the cards.

The fillet steaks I bought and the chilli I was going to make are unacceptable nourishment apparently
and the fridge full of salad and the like will still be full when they leave because 'they don't eat vegetables' Shocked.
(Both kids are well on their way to obesity BTW) Although it's going to be great catching up with my pal and his wife
I get the feeling I'm going to be relieved when they go again so I can tidy up and eat something unprocessed.
I'm hoping now they are teens they have settled down a bit, but years ago back when they were a bit younger
(10 ish and 7 ish i think) they were visiting our last house and the youngest one got so excited playing
the videogame 'Pain' that he literally pissed himself all over my just purchased £3500 leather corner group.
They are a bit older now and I've just dropped 150 quid on an afternoon Karting for me my mate and
his boys while my Mrs and his go into Bath for a shopping trip. I'm hoping they will be able to blow off
steam there rather than smashing my house up and pissing everywhere Laughing

To (not very) briefly respond to Big Shows post.

I find my life very fulfilling and not wanting at all.
Knowing this for certain is the polar opposite of naive bollocks.
In fact I question the naivety of couples who have kids because it's the 'done thing' or even worse
have them by 'accident' then once saddled with them spout all the usual platitudes like -

'I never thought I'd have kids but now I have I wouldn't change it for the world'
- Well, that's because you can't really can you. Not without doing time for murder.

'I can't imagine life without little <insert whatever name is fashionable these days>'
- Well, that's because you've become conditioned to living your life entirely for/around them.

I applaud parents who raise their kids right, but in all honesty I think many are lacking in this area.
How can someone who is 'everything to me' be pushed out into the road in their buggy to make the
traffic stop or fed garbage until they are no longer person shaped and able to move around, or cooped
up in a car full of smoking adults for what would have been a 5 minute walk to school. Where you see
the mums who spent two hours getting themselves glammed up to stand around and gas at the school gates
with the other wimmin while their kids look dishevelled, grubby and are still eating their breakfast because they
had to get it themselves anyway.

I see things like this all the time, and I can't help but question why they had these kids because to
my eyes, if they had really wanted them, they would be doing a better job of the parenting.
My own sister had two kids in an attempt to make her soon to be ex husband grow up a bit.
Now that's naive bollocks. 'I know my relationship is dysfunctional so I'll add a couple of kids to the mix
and see if that changes anything.' Well yes it does, it increases the net amount of broken hearts from
1 to 4 so a massive 300% increase over what it could have been if you had just moved on.
Worse still she's in contact with the bloke she couldn't stand being around for the rest of her life now,
so he'll never be truly gone. Naivety incarnate IMO.
Their divorce should be final by about August. Funnily enough, their 3 and 5 year old seem to be taking it
all quite badly.

But you're right it's not a competition, there are those that do and those that don't. It doesn't really matter
which side of the fence you are on as long as you let others do what they want to do.
But in all honesty if only all the properly planned children were left and all the others just vanished one day.
We'd have about 50% of our schools empty and a hugely reduced welfare bill. Our system that rewards
people for 'farming' children in lieu of working for a living is probably the biggest cause of 'unwanted' children
(but for their increased benefit eligibility status.) Still I guess it gives the social workers a raison d'etre.
I mean after all we only get the odd Baby P every now and then. Or do we only hear about them every
now and then? Which of course has entirely different implications.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:


But you're right it's not a competition, there are those that do and those that don't. It doesn't really matter
which side of the fence you are on as long as you let others do what they want to do.
But in all honesty if only all the properly planned children were left and all the others just vanished one day.
We'd have about 50% of our schools empty and a hugely reduced welfare bill. Our system that rewards
people for 'farming' children in lieu of working for a living is probably the biggest cause of 'unwanted' children
(but for their increased benefit eligibility status.) Still I guess it gives the social workers a raison d'etre.
I mean after all we only get the odd Baby P every now and then. Or do we only hear about them every
now and then? Which of course has entirely different implications.


Good point.

Superfreakonomics had a chapter on sudden drop in crime rate being attributed to a change in mayor/more police.

They found out it was to do with abortion being legalised 20 years previously Thumbs Up

Surely people should be applauded for reducing burden on the system?

Also... if you need a hand eating the fridge full of salad and steaks, I can collect Laughing
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BigShow
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking rubbish parents, or people who had children for the wrong reasons (like to save a relationship), out of the equation for a second.

grr666 wrote:

I find my life very fulfilling and not wanting at all.
Knowing this for certain is the polar opposite of naive bollocks.


Absolutely agree and that's good to hear. Reading what I wrote back it's a much more sweeping generalisation then I intended. I guess what I mean is that for reasonably decent parents like myself (time will tell if that's true!) the lifestyle (some) childless people use as a kind of trump card is a lifestyle we had, experienced, enjoyed, and still consciously chose to move away from. So I tend to be a bit Rolling Eyes when they attempt to use it that way.

So by "naïve" I guess I mean it's weird to be lectured by people who have never walked the path I'm on, yet I've walked on theirs for most of my life, chosen to step off onto another and will step back on theirs again when the kids are older. How are they then able to criticise the quality of footing on the other path, an area they have never trodden? Of course they're free to, but it's just speculation, there's no weight to it, no insight.

That's what I'm getting at I suppose, and personally I'd never lecture someone for staying put and not having any sprogs because to be frank, I don't care, it's their life. It's probably for the best, children that aren't my own annoy me as much as they always have.
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J0Al1
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
kids don't eat actual food so two days of sausages beans and chicken dippers seems to be on the cards.


Oh how I laughed.

True, many parents very much cater for their kids and don't give them food that they probably would otherwise eat. I'm sure its to avoid wasted food.

My son got whatever I was cooking, be it lasagne, beef stew, roast chicken etc.. Rarely have I ever done chicken nuggets and chips, which is staple diet for some kiddies.

Lazy dinners for him (having had a proper school lunch) would be ... cheese, bread, tomatoes, carrots, cucumber, ham and yoghurt.

One of the best things I was told (passed down form my Victorian granny) was as a parent you need to retain 'some' selfishness. Kids need to know their parents have needs too... ie . . . Dad watches the news at 8pm or Don't wake Mum up until 8am at weekends.


Last edited by J0Al1 on 12:47 - 02 Apr 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeon wrote:
Jezebel, Lady Macbeth and Katie Hopkins weigh heavily on the scales ......shit,

All fictional characters. Folded arms


BigShow wrote:
Summary: if you like kids it's fine, if you don't like kids it's fine. it's not a competition

Actually it is.

It's called survival of the fittest.

Don't let the mooing masses win by default.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with sausages, beans and chicken dippers? Sad
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 02 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:

Really interesting post Thumbs Up

I think that you have a good point about us trying to convince ourselves/others about this.


I spend a significant amount of time doing this.

I don't want kids, but I'm not totally and utterly sure that I don't want them. I'm just fairly sure that I want to devote my entire life to something, which on the surface, looks a bit shit.

I've not got too much time to decide this either. Once me and the missus gets to 40, it's probably a bit late
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