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Engine Building For A Dummy, (Me)!

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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 25 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I would not leave anything that could be considered abrasive on a journal for assembly. Clean it up and offer it up again.

Saying that 0.05mm is 2 thou which is standard interference fit for stuff like valve seats. If it's that much oversize it's doubtful that it's ever going to turn.


I'm going to polish the journals, it's all I can do by the looks of it.
As to the measurement, I'm not sure if they're totally accurate, after I took that measurement I decided to check the accuracy of the digital calipers, as best I could.
Taking meaurements of a set of feeler gauges, the readings on the calipers are somewhat hit and miss, 2 out of 16 were spot on, the rest were over by upto 0.02mm!
Having consulted the manual again, the precise specs given for the journals are:-
19.967 - 19.980mm (reading on caliper 20.000mm)
and
33.959 - 33.975mm (reading on caliper 34.001mm)
So I could be out by +0.013mm and +0.022, respectively.

I need a more accurate measuring device! Doh!
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 25 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you do, you cannot measure journal tolerances with a caliper. Micrometers are cheap especially the mechanical ones.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 07 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's been a bit frustrating, what with usual seasonal lull in everything, however, I have finished.  Hoorah!

It was my new cam shaft that was holding me up, I thought I'd attempt to polish the offending journal, thought better of it and found a professional.
To be precise I found this company:-

https://precisionengineeringbuxton.co.uk/

I contacted Chris a couple of days ago and took the old and new cams for him to have a look at.  He measured everything and determined I needed to remove a maximum of .002mm.  He did it in two stages, .001mm at a time, the cam was still to tight after the first grind, so I took it back earlier today and he removed another .001mm.  The cam now fits perfectly with no movement other than rotational!

Chris has a cracking workshop, everything you could think of, lathes, CNC  mills, etc., etc.
He didn't want to charge me anything, but I insisted, probably a piffling job for him, but saves a world of pain for me.
So if you're in this vicinity and need some precision engineering, give him a call, I'm sure he could sort you out!

Here's the offending article, the shiny bit is what was ground to size:-

https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/Eng%20Rbld/01%20CAMGRIND_zpslwce93ld.jpg

Before installing the cam, all the mating surfaces, journals, lobes and bearing surfaces must be coated with molybdenum grease.
I guess there'll be specific instructions for every bike, but for this bike the cam is inserted with the sprocket bolt holes at 12 & 6 o'clock.
Obviously you need to get the flange, on the end of the cam, past the cam chain, without dropping the chain.
It's a bit fiddly but just take your time and don't use brute force.
Once the cam is in place, in the head, the cam sprocket and chain need to be installed. 
At this point you need to line up all the timing marks, on this bike that means the "T" mark on the flywheel must align with the notch on the generator cover and mark on the cam sprocket must align with the mark on top of the rocker cover.
To align the flywheel marks, using the bolt on the end of the crankshaft, turn the crank anti clockwise until the "T" mark aligns with the notch on the inspection cover, obviously you must support the cam chain with your other hand, while you're doing this.
If you've not done this before, you'll notice that the crank/piston does not want to sit, exactly, on top dead center, (the "T" mark), it wants to go past it slightly.  To stop this happening I needed to weight the end of the socket wrench, I was using to turn the crank, a rubber mallet was heavy enough to stop the crank moving.
Once you've aligned these marks and held everything in place you can now think about installing the cam sprocket.
To make this process as easy as possible you need as much slack in the cam chain as you can get, so you need to slacken off the cam chain tensioner, using whatever method is recommended for the bike.
Now the tricky bit, you need to get the chain on the sprocket, the sprocket teeth have to be in exactly the right place on the chain, so when you get it all in place the timing mark on the sprocket aligns exactly with the timing mark on the rocker cover, you have to do all this while holding the cam chain in place ensuring it doesn't fall of the crank sprocket.
It's very fiddly and dificult to explain the process, I managed to get the chain on the sprocket in the right place first time.  I've done this before and it took three attempts.  This time I pulled the cam chain up and made a mental note of which link, in the chain, would be be at top and center, I got the chain onto one side of the sprocket, with the tooth adjacent to the timing mark engaging with link I thought would be at top and centre.  There should be enough slack in the chain to work the rest around the spocket.  I got it on and all the timing marks were aligned!
Before you do anything else, use the cam chain tensioner and take up the slack in the chain!

Here's the chain and sprocket in place, with the bolts torqued up:-

https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/Eng%20Rbld/02%20CAMGRIND_zps5hjpbmmt.jpg

Pulse generator housing in place:-

https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/Eng%20Rbld/03%20CAMGRIND_zpsijyga9pt.jpg

The difficult part's done with now, it's just a case of fitting the ignition components.  First to go on is the advance/retard mechanism, this slides over the end of the cam and is located and kept in alignment with a tiny pin that fits into the cam shaft.  Once it's in position it's just a case of bolting it up on the end of the cam.

https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/Eng%20Rbld/04%20CAMGRIND_zpsnba4ju9g.jpg

Next up, the pulse generator, this fits onto the housing and is held in place with two small screws.  You need to go back to the timing matks on the flywheel now, your manual should tell you which mark needs to be aligned.
Once you've got aligment on the flywheel, you can slide the pulse generator backplate around until the marks align on the adv/ret and the pick up., then tighten up the backplate screws!
You should also check the air gap between the adv/ret and the pick up, your manual should tell you how to do this. in this case there are two screws to be loosened which allow the pick up to be moved up an down to adjust the gap.

https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/Eng%20Rbld/05%20CAMGRIND_zps4wsnyusi.jpg

FINISHED
https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/Eng%20Rbld/06%20CAMGRIND_zpspcxtb3oi.jpg

All I have to do now is the valve clearances, which ain't that difficult.
Depending on the weather, I'll fit the engine to the bike and see what happens.  I'll use the generator that's on the bike at the moment as I know that works correctly!

Watch this space!

So that's it really, if I can do it anyone with a modicum of sense can do it, yes it's very daunting at first, it's fiddly and annoying at times but, overall, it's very satisfying!
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.Chris.
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 07 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great, fingers crossed for the first run!

Do you know what sort of carburation changes are going to be needed for that big bore kit?
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 07 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is probably the first thread I have read from start to end. Sir, I admire your patience!
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Ichy
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 07 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:



I contacted Chris a couple of days ago and took the old and new cams for him to have a look at.  He measured everything and determined I needed to remove a maximum of .002mm.  


2 microns? Are you sure the decimal place is correct?

Nice build though. I wish the engines I worked on were that easy Wink
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 01:15 - 08 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Chris. wrote:
Do you know what sort of carburation changes are going to be needed for that big bore kit?


No, not yet, I haven't looked into it yet, I'll see what the TLR trials people are saying.

Ichy wrote:
2 microns? Are you sure the decimal place is correct?


No I'm not sure, he kept mentioning thou, maybe he was was working in inches. He did say that the journal wasn't, exactly, round, he took loads of measurements, so maybe he was referring to the eccentricity.
Anyway, the guy knew what he was doing, it fits and turns with no play, which is the important bit! Very Happy
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 08 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Chris. wrote:
Do you know what sort of carburation changes are going to be needed for that big bore kit?


I've done a bit of web based reading today.

The standard jetting on the 125 engine is 102 main & 38 pilot jet.

Looking at this chart:-

https://www.bbrmotorsports.com/Tech/FAQ/Documents/JettingChart.htm

It looks as though the 125 jetting would not be far off that for 143/144cc's.

Further reading reveals that those who have up jetted after a big bore, did not fair well and, merely, saw a decrease in mpg and no increase in performance.  A return to standard, pre big bore, jets saw the best results.

Another opinion, for single cylinder engines, is to down jet.
The theory being that the increase in capacity also increases vacuum, which means more fuel, so to maintain the correct stoichiometric ratio a smaller jet is required.
To my mind surely increased vacuum would increase the air in, as well as the fuel in Question

Unless anyone has a better suggestion I'll start with the 125 jetting and try different needle positions, at first.
For the cost of jets, up and down one size, I'll buy them if I can't get it running properly on the standard jets.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 08 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, consider this:

Is your mixture right at 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle on a standard engine? Yep, it should be pretty much bang on.

You don't switch-about jetting for various throttle openings and loads because the carb is designed to compensate for it. The amount of fuel coming out through the main jet is determined by the velocity of the air coming through the choked section of the carb. So if you increase your capacity, you increase both the pumped volume and the size of the bang, which in turn increases the velocity through the choke.

This is a very simplistic way of describing it but the up-shot of it is that the carb is self-compensating even for extra capacity. Start with standard jetting.
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