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Dodgy government deals

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Itchy
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PostPosted: 15:28 - 30 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:


I dunno if I'd like the idea of ripping off their designs. Given that China are known for stealing other countries' ideas, it kind of shines a light on how poor their own stuff must currently be..!




PRC is providing the money. Avera is providing the tech.

Avera has some skeletons itself. The Flamanville plant is the big one.

They needed major reactor components so outsourced them to Japan.

Then Fukashima happened and Japanese companies couldn't complete the contract.

So they bought it in house and built them (in France). Problem is in 2015 they didn't pass the (revised) safety standards. Now they have a problem they have a 200 million+ quid part (which takes years to build) which is already buried deep inside the structure that will cost millions just to extract it and replace.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 30 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:


Personally I think we should just rip off the IP of a Chinese reactor and then deny doing so, just like the Chinese do to everyone else.


I dunno if I'd like the idea of ripping off their designs. Given that China are known for stealing other countries' ideas, it kind of shines a light on how poor their own stuff must currently be..!


The Chinese own the IP, they didn't as far as I can tell do much of the design work. Here are the Bradwell options:

Hualong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPR-1000

CAP1400
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP1000#China

As Itchy has said, China is mostly providing the funding. What Theresa wants is to make sure China has no input into critical systems like the reactor control and management systems, especially considering all these concerns about ChiCap hackers.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 31 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd be pleased (or not) to know that Japan (a subsidary of Hitachi) is building 3 or 4 nuclear reactors at Wylfa, and Oldbury around 2020.

While Toshiba is planning 3 at Sellafield.

Which back of an envelope calculation means 50-60% UK electricity will be foreign owned.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 31 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Utilities and infrastructure should be in public/state ownership.

If a private company can make money out of it, I'm sure there's potential for the state to do it.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 31 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
You'd be pleased (or not) to know that Japan (a subsidary of Hitachi) is building 3 or 4 nuclear reactors at Wylfa, and Oldbury around 2020.

While Toshiba is planning 3 at Sellafield.

Which back of an envelope calculation means 50-60% UK electricity will be foreign owned.


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Scythe
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 31 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason we're in this mess is because there has been no development in the civil nuclear industry in the UK for years.

What company is going to fund development of a plant when there is no demand in the UK for it for over 20 years, as such a lot of the skilled labour is now well in retirement.

For example, France has happily kept on going with nuclear power and as such EDF has a skill-base for it and uses that here. Granted, they're not perfect either.

As far as I'm aware, the only UK-led proposal at the moment is for the use of alternative small modular reactors dotted around the country. Rolls-Royce have put forward a proposal based upon years of experience of naval nuclear power which is of a similar ilk, however even that design originates from the Americans in a 1954 agreement which we took on and have developed since. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/19/rolls-royce-could-power-britains-nuclear-future-with-mini-reacto/
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 03:57 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scythe wrote:
The reason we're in this mess is because there has been no development in the civil nuclear industry in the UK for years.

What company is going to fund development of a plant when there is no demand in the UK for it for over 20 years, as such a lot of the skilled labour is now well in retirement.

For example, France has happily kept on going with nuclear power and as such EDF has a skill-base for it and uses that here. Granted, they're not perfect either.

As far as I'm aware, the only UK-led proposal at the moment is for the use of alternative small modular reactors dotted around the country. Rolls-Royce have put forward a proposal based upon years of experience of naval nuclear power which is of a similar ilk, however even that design originates from the Americans in a 1954 agreement which we took on and have developed since. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/19/rolls-royce-could-power-britains-nuclear-future-with-mini-reacto/


Hopefully the government lets them give it a go.
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