Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


War with China

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:49 - 07 Dec 2016    Post subject: War with China Reply with quote
Did anyone watch this ......

The Coming War on China is John Pilger's 60th film for ITV. Pilger reveals what the news doesn't - that the world's greatest military power, the United States, and the world's second economic power, China, both nuclear-armed, are on the road to war. Pilger's film is a warning and an inspiring story of resistance.

https://www.itv.com/hub/the-coming-war-on-china/2a4249a0001

Give it a go if you are at all interested in how the Pacific is getting militarised. I really enjoyed (probably not the right word but) it.

The yanks wont be happy at being portrayed as the baddies. Laughing
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:15 - 07 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Clickbait.

In as few words as possible: Wars are always economic first. Al la Pearl Harbor and the economic embargo.

US exports inflation. If other nations stop absorbing it, it comes back. PRC stopped buying T-bills in 2011.

So Trump gets his way and stops PRC imports. So you have the same amount (increasing actually) of money chasing considerably fewer goods.

Guess what happens in this situation?
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:21 - 07 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Sun Wukong
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Karma :
PostPosted: 19:20 - 07 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs


He really does say it like he's barely avoiding adding a "Va" at the beginning. Bless him.

And yeh, South China Sea is exciting, and has been for nearly a decade.

The way I see it, far less than an incoming war, is Americas erosion as a world power... Frankly, it can't posture any more.

Which turns geopolitics up on its head.

Although Trump just did a good job of pissing China off over Taiwan, and then getting in a trademark twitter bitching... so who knows.

I like Rogerborg's point of 30million expendable penises.
____________________
Top cat
"Hard times lead to hard people. Hard people lead to good times. Good times lead to weak people. Weak people lead to hard times." Smegballs
"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Jewlio Rides Again LLB
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:46 - 07 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remember doing a mission over the South China Sea. Amazing place.

How I miss Firestorm Thunderhawk 2. Crying or Very sad
____________________
Mpd72: I can categorically say i’m Brighter than that, no matter how I come across on here.
HAHAHA HAHAHA Blew Chilly MyCrowSystems
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

-Matt-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:45 - 08 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting film; hadn't noticed he'd made any new ones recently Thumbs Up.

His websites got a really good library of all the stuff he's written on various topics - might be of interest if you liked the film https://johnpilger.com/articles
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 02:58 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
First part: Whining about nuclear weapons
Second part: Whining about slavery and western imperialism
Third Part: War with China and how the US is evil
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:26 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:

Those Naval bases being built on the Atols and disputed islands in that area are quite something and not being built for fun.


It's because they're in multiple overlapping exclusive economic zones about 200miles from the coast.

Everybody in the region wants a piece of it:

https://static1.uk.businessinsider.com/image/5551e146dd0895dc288b45f2-840-686/south%20china%20seas.png

Everybody has been building islands in order to prop up their claims to the area as an EEZ

https://static3.businessinsider.com/image/568ac459c08a809b088b69b8-1070-722/screen%20shot%202016-01-04%20at%202.12.27%20pm.png


It's no different from say invading Iraq for oil or Afghanistan with a lot less killing.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:24 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Cobblers, The Spatley Islands and location of Fiery reef is nowhere near China. 200 miles my arse, add another 0 on maybe.



It's actually 393miles from Woody Island.

There's also the matter of Subi Reef.


mpd72 wrote:
This is China trying to extend its territory and keep out others from International waters. They are being hostile to international boats in International waters.



I am utterly utterly shocked! How dare any nation attempt to grab resources by force! No other nation would dare do such a thing!!! Wink
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:30 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
I'm utterly shocked that you think this is acceptable in the present day.



Why would it be deemed unacceptable? Other nations have been doing this all over the place over the last 10-15 years.

Oh I get it, all nations are equal but some nations are more equal than others.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:24 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:

Why would it be deemed unacceptable? Other nations have been doing this all over the place over the last 10-15 years.

Oh I get it, all nations are equal but some nations are more equal than others.


When can we expect a referendum on independence for Tibet and Hong Kong?

Oh I get it, all nations are equal but some nations are more equal than others.

The only countries I can think of which have stolen land from another country in the last 15 years are Russia and China. I suspect that you are trying to make a point about Iraq and/or Afghanistan, but neither the UK nor the US claim either country nor do they own their resources.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:42 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Oh really? Which INTERNATIONAL WATERS are these then?



Why are you suddenly talking about international waters? I don't think you understand the term international waters.

International waters are waters where no state controls it. The South China sea is within numerous EEZ areas and numerous nations lay a claim to it legitimate or otherwise. Therefore it doesn't fall under the definition that no state controls it.


Also I said resource grabs. These waters contain resources so it's a resource grab. Land contains resources and thus such wars are also resource grabs.

FYI Bahrain vs Qatar 2001 and Gaza.

The UK has been involved in extensive resource grabs. While you may say the Empire was a long time ago these resource grabs have been recent. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria for instance. These are all in the past 15 years. It can be argued that land grabs are worse. Why? Because people live on the land and tend to die in military interventions.

So if one party does more than a few resource grabs killing millions in the process. Then...what right do they have to complain when others grab resources as well?
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:54 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
I suspect that you are trying to make a point about Iraq and/or Afghanistan, but neither the UK nor the US claim either country nor do they own their resources.



So wait.

You're telling me, you attack a country invade killing many people. You then install a puppet government that is controlled by you and will do whatever you ask of them. You control all of the infrastructure directly or indirectly.

You keep 1000s of military 'advisers' on the ground you know just coz. And you have the gall to say with a straight face that you don't lie claim to them?
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Ribenapigeon
Super Spammer



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:19 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
There`s an entire collection of Pilger films on youtube. His ones on Vietnam make for depressing viewing especially.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:58 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
I suspect that you are trying to make a point about Iraq and/or Afghanistan, but neither the UK nor the US claim either country nor do they own their resources.



So wait.

You're telling me, you attack a country invade killing many people. You then install a puppet government that is controlled by you and will do whatever you ask of them. You control all of the infrastructure directly or indirectly.

You keep 1000s of military 'advisers' on the ground you know just coz. And you have the gall to say with a straight face that you don't lie claim to them?


The UK and US do not control Iraq's resources. China is stealing territory from its neighbours. Disgraceful actions by stinky.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:11 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The UK and US do not control Iraq's resources. .


Sure they don't. I also have some magic beans to sell you.

Plus there are many more modern examples I can cite.

Take for instance Diego Garcia. The forceful deportation and theft of their land. The sellers were in no position to sell it, much like buying a stolen bike they have no right to hand over the title. Funny enough in 2000 the UK courts agreed with this and the Queen overturned this ruling in 2002.

In fact you can watch it here:

https://johnpilger.com/videos/stealing-a-nation

COMPLETELY A-OK as is killing Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans and Syrians.

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
China is stealing territory from its neighbours. Disgraceful actions by stinky.


People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:00 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Oh I get it, all nations are equal but some nations are more equal than others.

When it comes to imperialism, sure. Two colours and five stars? It's like their flag was designed by infant. An autistic infant, granted, but this...?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Construction_sheet_of_Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg

Isn't a patch on proper British pedantry.

https://britinla.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/uk-flag-right-wrong_thumb.gif

And that's before we even get on to taking the pith.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:03 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Oh really? https://www.allenbwest.com/allen/china-threatens-u-s-cruiser-international-waters-much-closer-relations


Quote:
A Chinese naval vessel tried to force a U.S. guided missile warship to stop in international waters recently, causing a tense military standoff in the latest case of Chinese maritime harassment


You don't understand what international waters are. Here have a look at this picture. The white bits are land + territorial waters + EEZ waters.

https://francoism.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/internationalwaters_600.png

Take a map and draw lines 200 miles from the coasts of each nation in the area and they overlap. The South China sea isn't international waters as it is within the coast line of numerous nations. If you divvy it up equally it is still pretty much covered by all the EEZ of various nations around it.

The only way it can be international waters is if Woody Island discovered by Zheng He in 1398 and used it as a stopping off point and as an outpost is not considered. If you can do that then the Falklands shouldn't belong to the UK either. Considering the Falklands and ownership are claimed by discovery in 1690 and 1765. You may notice the Falklands and Ascension Island also have big white blobs around them. These are their EEZs and not international waters. If you do this then by all rights Australia and the Continental USA should be given back to the natives if discovery and colonisation before 1398 isn't allowed to be considered.

Not considering Woody Island leaves a small narrow strip in between the Paracels and the Spratleys.



Oh and here's the thing. The US hasn't ratified the UNCLOS agreement. They recognise it but haven't signed it. So how can they complain about a law they haven't themselves ratified?

mpd72 wrote:
Where as the Chinese have a habit of getting very close to US and Japanese coastline.


Gary Powers.

USS Maddox Gulf of Tonkin.

Admiral Hank Morgan.

USS Cowpens incident which happened 90 miles from Hainan. US press says International waters. UN law says it's EEZ.

USS piracy in 2002 of a North Korean ship in international waters where NK were legally exporting scud missiles.


But your rules are not my rules! And if I break my rules I can just redefine the argument!
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:34 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:

Oh I do, you're just choosing to ignore the fact that China is claiming waters which aren't theirs and are harassing boats in true internationals waters.
They're becoming the new North Korea in that area.



I haven't.

I said might is right since the beginning of time.

The PRC is just doing what the western world has been doing for centuries and continues to do today but thinks it is OK.

Invading Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan OK

Depriving people of their homeland OK.

Syria - Syria is an interesting case. There is something called Felony Murder. Whereby when you create the circumstances all that follows is the fault of the initiator. Therefore all those refugees should be accepted. Yet here is a case of doing the deed yet not accepting the consequences.

Somebody else does it oh how evil.


mpd72 wrote:

Here you go Itchy, more stuff to ignore and deflect...

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/06/15/national/politics-diplomacy/chinese-naval-ship-briefly-enters-japans-territorial-waters-off-kagoshima/#.WEvx3OaLTIU

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-navy-ships-off-alaska-passed-through-u-s-territorial-waters-1441350488



Yes and? I posted the incidents of the US doing the same but you chose to ignore and deflect it because this is completely OK.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 7 years, 132 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.12 Sec - Server Load: 0.79 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 158.51 Kb