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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:40 - 07 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:03 - 07 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Nobby the Bastard wrote: | I did smoke 30 a day for 30 years. Call it experience. |
That's not what you said though: "...nicotine is very addictive for very little return." If you said "...cigarettes are very addictive" I wouldn't have an issue.
We have a rising problem of kids vaping and this confusion of nicotine/cigarettes doesn't help. The real problem IMO is thousands upon thousands of single-use electronic vapes littering the place. We are told that fag-butts take an age to degrade, surely these devices are much, much worse? Fuck it, let's just focus on carrier bags, straws and cutlery ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 22:45 - 07 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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I agree with Nobby. Otherwise why would I still be fucking on with this vape when i haven't had a cigarette in 18 months?
The delivery system isn't the problem, it's the nicotine dependancy. It's subtle and complex. And do me the courtesy of not saying it's all in the mind. Yes it is but the mind is a pretty big thing and nicotine gets into it. Even if it isn't all that bad for you, it's something you don't need and find very hard to stop using once you start.
Probably shouldn't be conflating it with a littering problem either. The littering thing can be dealt with. The fecking things cost a fiver each and once you start using them, it's a hell of a job to stop. Shouldn't we be taking all possible steps to prevent people starting? And yes, I would extend a rolling n+1 minimum age to vapes as well as fags.
Regatding the littering issue, the government could half the littering problem overnight by allowing them to put 4ml of liquid in them instead of 2ml, or quarter it by allowing them to put 8ml in. The battery is good for it.
I probably have enough lithium cells saved in old vapes (waiting to take them to the recycling) to power an electric motorbike. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 23:36 - 07 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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It's an oversimplification to say it's all down to nicotine addiction alone. Why did kids in the past start smoking at 14 or whatever? Certainly not for the taste! Peer-pressure is a big factor for that age. Added to that there's all the jazzy flavours we didn't have as kids (you can have old tarmac or you can have menthol old tarmac.) So it's a multifactor problem.
We could do some research as to the relative weight of each factor in creating the problem and then deal with it in a focused and efficient manner. We could even go as far as enforcing existing laws. "Fuck it, much easier to ban it all. That way everyone gets to suffer."
As to "it's something you don't need" you can say that about anything: cannabis, alcohol, red meat, fast cars, rock climbing... People choose to do dangerous things sometimes therefore we must remove choice ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 00:08 - 08 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: | It's an oversimplification to say it's all down to nicotine addiction alone. Why did kids in the past start smoking at 14 or whatever? Certainly not for the taste! Peer-pressure is a big factor for that age. Added to that there's all the jazzy flavours we didn't have as kids (you can have old tarmac or you can have menthol old tarmac.) So it's a multifactor problem. |
You are missing the point that regardless of how you start, after a short time, smoking/vaping stops being a choice. Then it IS straight-up nicotine dependancy. Note I say nicotine dependancy rather than addiction because it's complex and not just the physiological addiction which is comparatively easy to overcome. I've done it twice, once for 11 years so any actual physiological addiction was long gone but the dependancy is pernicious and drags you back.
Yes peer pressure, advertising, copying parents, some sort of coming of age idea or simply being a rebellious teenager (or wanting to be seen as one) are all things that make peole start. But surely this all gives weight to the idea of legislating to prevent young people starting in the first place?
Quote: | We could do some research as to the relative weight of each factor in creating the problem and then deal with it in a focused and efficient manner. We could even go as far as enforcing existing laws. "Fuck it, much easier to ban it all. That way everyone gets to suffer." |
Who exactly suffers from this legislation? Which would only effect someone who was born after 2006? If they were smoking/vaping already, they were already obtaining it illegally so nothing changes for them. Just like nothing changes for anyone born before 2006.
Quote: | As to "it's something you don't need" you can say that about anything: cannabis, alcohol, red meat, fast cars, rock climbing... People choose to do dangerous things sometimes therefore we must remove choice |
The things you list are -on the whole- things people know are potentially bad for them and still do because they want to. They choose to do them, they can choose not to do them. Alcohol probably less so for a minority of users. Cannabis arguably so but it's illegal anyway.
Smoking, for a hell of a lot of smokers, is something they know is bad for them and don't want to do any more but can't stop. The choice to be a smoker once made, is very difficult to unmake, many never do, even when it is actually killing them.
Like driving a fast car but after 20 miles it locks you in and you have to drive round in it forever and have to keep paying to put petrol in it to go anywhere. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 06:21 - 08 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: | Once you go down the route of moving the age limit outside of the usual over-16, -18, -21 - "the youth" - then pretty much everyone has to produce an ID if they wish to buy nicotine products. We have laws at the moment that don't get enforced, how is making more laws to intrude on people's lives going to fix anything? |
Well, maybe mandatory production of ID to buy age restricted products would be a good idea anway. It would certainly make it easier for shopkeepers instead of them having to make a judgement call as to if they are going to ID someone.
They do this in some states in the US (the land of the free). You want to buy booze, you show ID, no exceptions, even if you walk in on a zimmer frame. Everyone knows this, there's no ambiguity and no pressure on the staff. They don't record it, they just have to be shown it so it's not like it's intruding on your civil liberties. Certainly less intrusive than using a loyalty card. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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superstacker |
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superstacker Traffic Copper
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Karma :
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 10:15 - 08 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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I started smoking during a period of being single in my 20s. I used to come home from work, roll a single skinner using tobacco and fall asleep to music with my headphones on. From that I developed a tobacco habit which lasted 30 years. I did the vape thing for a couple of years and weaned myself off that by mixing my own juice until the nicotine content became negligible and it acted only as a dummy.
Personally I think anything that makes it harder for people to start using nicotine has to be good. Never mind the health aspect, I could have bought a decent house with the money I spent on baccy.
I think that as with alcohol, caffein and sugar, keeping a population hooked enables the Government to maintain control of our spending habits and maintains the fiscal differential between plebs and those with more disposable income... ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 10:39 - 08 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Also while I'm on my soap box (forgive me, I desperately need the height advantage) one should also be suspicious of laws that affect poor people but not rich elites...
Fags: plain packaging, heavily taxed, can't smoke inside most places.
Cigars: still sold in fancy wooden boxes, taxes irrelevant (compared to the income of the purchaser) and can smoke inside the shop selling them ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:15 - 08 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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I would say that women don't get hooked on things in quite the same way as men. Physiological or environmental? Probably a bit of both but apart from the ultra-hardcore smokers women quite often give up fags during pregnancy. For men the crunch point is "you have lung cancer" which happens much later in life.
Highlights of the differences in attitudes/usage of drugs between the sexes:
https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/substance-use-in-women/sex-gender-differences-in-substance-use
The interesting thing is male/female rates have equalised in recent years. "That'll be equality for you! Feminists with lung cancer, hahaha!" Not really. Rates of smoking in men have gone down to meet female rates.
Anecdotally I see more women vs men smoking socially on a night out and not smoking much at other times. My wife's a case in point: would smoke 2 or 3 menthols on a Saturday night but nothing during the week. Annoying ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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struan80 |
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struan80 World Chat Champion
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Freddyfruitba... |
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Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
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Hetzer |
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Hetzer Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:02 - 01 Dec 2023 Post subject: |
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One of my Kiwi mates was here on a visit and told me a pack of 20 over there now costs $60 (Kiwi dollars, around two to the quid). That's tyranny, folks, an absolute abuse of whatever 'democratic mandate' the current scumbags in power were given.
Ditto the UK, though to a lesser extreme.
Meanwhile, here in Jappo-land, a pack of import-brand fags is around £2.40. ____________________ "There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!" |
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