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ISIS Airstrikes

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Shall we bomb 'em good?
Yes
56%
 56%  [ 26 ]
No
43%
 43%  [ 20 ]
Total Votes : 46

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_Chris_
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 27 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
swampy wrote:
We are doing some minor willy waving with the bare minimum of outlay to try and maintain the UKs fading grasp on the world stage


I agree with you.
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WD Forte
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Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 28 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Drop something like this instead

https://k19.kn3.net/62CBEDA86.jpg


Is that a bomb with a fire extinguisher strapped on the back?
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 01:41 - 28 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
swampy wrote:
I'm not implying anything, I'm saying quite clearly that taking that view is laughable...

We are not freedom bombing Iraq to stop 'them muzzies' coming over here and cutting our heads off. Think about this for a sec, do you really think its going to make any difference Laughing ?

Do explain how you think this master plan may work..

We are doing some minor willy waving with the bare minimum of outlay to try and maintain the UKs fading grasp on the world stage.. I would even go as far as to say that there may be some vague humanitarian premise (in that at least we can justify our actions). I really think you are barking up the wrong tree of you think that we are doing it to make our streets safer..


Sabre rattling to keep up the facade of a world power
Belgium sent more planes than we did and Holland sent the same amount
Westminster is a bit player riding on the coat tails of its master America

Note there is no UN mandate, the US blackmailed there friends
though I notice Turkey have stayed out of it as so called ISIS is right on its boarder
Thinking Thinking
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Im-a-Ridah
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 03:53 - 28 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
WD Forte wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Drop something like this instead

https://k19.kn3.net/62CBEDA86.jpg


Is that a bomb with a fire extinguisher strapped on the back?


It's an RAF WE177 freefall nuclear bomb. Thing at the back is a rocket booster, probably to help stabilise it in freefall.
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Mart_er6
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Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 08:44 - 28 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:

Except it won't have any of those effects. Because generally you give ground and let them bring their culture with them.


For most cultures coming to the UK(eg. Chinese!) this approach seems to have worked quite well. The UK benefits from cross fertilisation of ideas, attitudes and of course labour(as it has since 1066 and indeed earlier!). This is usually preferable to all than a totalitarian response (Tianeman square?).

Islam in the Uk seems to create physical and cultural enclaves (this is the case in many northern uk towns) and couple this with a religion that brainwashes effectively (daily services) both of which discourage integration with the local cultures.
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Stevie GooGs
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://aattp.org/saudi-arabia-beheads-26-people-in-1-month-some-for-sorcery-us-fox-has-nothing-to-say-about-it/
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smegballs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
But China is mostly homogeneous and we set high bars for foreigners to go and work and live in China.


OMG China y u so raciss?? Check your deportation-privilege.
Diversity is good and a homogenous culture is bad!
You should be good go-guys and be more like the EU, a progressive society free of hate.

One world I've seen SJWs use recently to describe homogenous societies is "monoculture". Nice try to subtly use the negative connotations of monoculture as a farming practice and apply that to national makeup Rolling Eyes
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I heard a very interesting and thought out oppinion from a retired general on the radio a bit back.

His take on the IS problem was that first and foremost, the border between Iraq and Syria should be closed. By patrolling or even building a huge fence or wall if necessary. Until that's been done, everything else is a waste of time.

IS has claimed a swathe crossing this border as their caliphate.

It's a good move for several reasons.

1) The UN would have no objections to closing an already established international border. A resolution confirming the acceptance of the current boundries and their soverign right to maintain that boundry would pass.

2) Once closed, it would be enforcable by Iraqi troops.

3) The desire of the international community to do something can be targetted into securing that border. Yes it's big but not as big as the mexican border which the Yanks have plenty of experience in.

4) Currently IS are moving troops into Iraq and supplies into Syria. That can be stopped.

5) Divide and conquer. Deal with the Iraqi side, leave the Syrian side to stew in its own juices for a bit.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
My point of view is simple, fuck them, fuck all of them.

We shouldn't waste British lives or cash on various backwaters.
Pull all troops, money and personal out, let them get on with it. Foreign office release a statement saying these areas are shitty don't go there. Anyone stupid enough to ignore that gets their head lopped off.

Anyone operating in this country gets sent to Belmarsh/Dropped in international waters/9mm sleeping tablet.

With all the money we save we can sort the problem we have here or go into countries that want our help, to help with famine/flood whatever.

Yeah its shit for those being oppressed but NOFP.

If the Yanks wanna play Team America let them, we have a trillion quids worth of debt to pay off and are running at a deficit. Dropping billions of pounds worth of ordinance into a dust bowl is as moronic.
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Tungtvann
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Joined: 07 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
The bombing is a token effort, in reality it costs no more than keeping the pilots current with their training anyway. In fact, it'll be a good bit of experience for them, which is not a bad thing.

I strongly object to 'boots on the ground' and I'm leaving the army before there ever is a chance of this happening. I swore I'd never go back to Iraq after last time, and I meant it.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
chris-red wrote:
My point of view is simple, fuck them, fuck all of them.

We shouldn't waste British lives or cash on various backwaters.


I'm guessing the government are worried about IS spreading to other countries like ours. We already provide a large chunk of their recruitment via Mosques in Bradford, Birmingham etc.

With an ethnic group who already appear to be hiding and covering up for members of their own community, it would be pretty hard to work out who's a terrorist and who's not when these mainly Pakistani youngsters start bringing their Jihad back to the UK.



Since when has bombing the shit out of potential members, countries/families whatever going to STOP them joining.

Truth be told if I moved to country X for a better life then they turn around and blow up my family/friends and continue to do so, I'd be pretty Jihadi too.

Touching wood we haven't had any terrorist attacks on our soil for a fair while. I'd like to think it is because the security services are doing a bang up job. If we stop being involved that will calm folk down even more, it we bar people that went to fight from returning that will help even more.

No more Spread in the UK. Thumbs Up
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smegballs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well if anyone wants to go and slot some IS scumbags, the SMC (Syriac Military Council, a division of the Peoples Protection Units) is now taking on foreign volunteers.

https://i.imgur.com/VNZ29FS.png

Reckon goint to Syria to fight against religious fanatics will get you on MI5's naughty list on return to the UK?
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
smegballs wrote:
Reckon goint to Syria to fight against religious fanatics will get you on MI5's naughty list on return to the UK?

Yes.

Yes, it will.
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smegballs
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Buggered if you fight for religious fanatics, buggered for if you fight against religious fanatics..... just can't win in this day and age... Crying or Very sad

Welp, I've heard Turkey makes for a lovely winter holiday destination.....
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Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
smegballs wrote:
Buggered if you fight for religious fanatics, buggered for if you fight against religious fanatics..... just can't win in this day and age... Crying or Very sad

Welp, I've heard Turkey makes for a lovely winter holiday destination.....


Fighting the British Army might get you on MI5's lists too. Vets have the skills to do damage, may have problems reintegrating, much higher potential for drug or alcohol problems or mental health issues, and many may have a motive in the form of revenge against the government for injuries they sustained or deaths or injuries to their colleagues. Looks like the only way to stay off the MI5 list is to work at McD's Laughing
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oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
funny how time changes things

in the past going to fight for a "Just cause" was deemed heroic
look at the Spanish civil war
it was Deemed to be a just cause against the rise of Fascism Thinking
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oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 30 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Since when has bombing the shit out of potential members, countries/families whatever going to STOP them joining.

Truth be told if I moved to country X for a better life then they turn around and blow up my family/friends and continue to do so, I'd be pretty Jihadi too.


totally agree
seen a documentary where Israel had bombed the shit out of an area in Gaza
the eldest son and father were killed, the youngest son with his mums blessing joined Hezbollah to be a suicide bomber aged 11 Shocked
his sister was already a recruit but got foiled by Israel police when her vest malfunctioned
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-Matt-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 01:56 - 01 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
seen a documentary where Israel had bombed the shit out of an area in Gaza
the eldest son and father were killed, the youngest son with his mums blessing joined Hezbollah to be a suicide bomber aged 11 Shocked
his sister was already a recruit but got foiled by Israel police when her vest malfunctioned
Have to catch up with the rest of the threads comments another day; but this sums up the whole problem with the 'bomb them all to hell' solution many people seem to support. Even if by some impossible method they actually wiped out all of ISIS' current members - it won't stop the next wave of equally minded people, ironically it will probably create and provide ideal propaganda [as if they need it now] after such attacks to recruit future combatants. After over a decade at 'war' with al-Qaeda - whats happened; we've forgotten about them essentially. Because now the new big bad wolf that is ISIS has emerged.

Its also worth noting we've been told for the last decade and more how much of a terrible threat al-Qaeda posed at home in the form of terrorist attacks/home-grown extremists; how many large terrorist attacks have occured in the UK/USA besides '7/7' and '9/11'? It may indeed be a threat, but is it a threat that justifies getting involved in conflicts that cost billions of pounds, thousands of military personnels lives and masses more of foreign citizens lives that are lost in the melee - is it really worth it? Looking at the current situation it doesn't really seem to of achieved much, to put it lightly.

For all the people that talk about protecting British/American lives by attacking these groups - I would ask if they believe if we hadn't sent all these military personnel to Iraq and Afghanistan [many of whom have died or been severely injured bare in mind...], do they really think we would of suffered more casualties at home from terrorist attacks as a result - going from the current progress of ISIS not only have we needlessly lost more lives as a result of intervening, but we've provided these organisations with the exact sort of propaganda they need to increase recruitment and control in the region.

I find it very strange many people are so infuriated by stories about immigration and some immigrants they sometimes feel don't deserve benefits that total into the millions, when they're happy for billions to be spent on munitions to kill people half way around the world and risk British forces lives ''because terrorists''.
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Tungtvann
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Joined: 07 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 03:22 - 01 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Soldiers are meant to die though, women and children on the streets of London aren't.
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-Matt-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 03:40 - 01 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tungtvann wrote:
Soldiers are meant to die though, women and children on the streets of London aren't.
Its still the same waste of life for seemingly no positive benefit it would seem though. Even if you flip the perspective; its sounds like the same sort of justification.

"Jihadists are meant to die though, women and children on the streets of Baghdad aren't".
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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 04:36 - 01 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh yeah, I know there is no benefit to it. It's all bullshit, but we (society), as much as we say how awful it is and throw a few quid to H4H, are expectant that soldiers will go to far away lands and die.

I don't believe that every soldier who dies, saves x number at home, but that's what the government wants us all to think. "If we don't have our brave young men and women of the armed forces go and fight terror around the world, then that terror will be on our shores, slaughtering us at their own free will!"

I more than anyone wishes we'd just get the fuck out of all these places, leave the Muslims at it, and not lose another British soldier in any of these countries, and I don't think the UK would be much more of a dangerous place if we adopted this attitude.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 07:50 - 01 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tungtvann wrote:
Soldiers are meant to die though

Don't make me George S. Patton you.
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