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| Kwaks |
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Kwaks
I'm not a fast rider
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: 20:50 - 03 Jul 2006  Post subject: |
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Think you have missed the point a bit, this isnt segregation, its a private booking/hire of a theme park by a group of people who have religion and way of life in common.
And if they want their day to be covered by their rules, thats their business.
No-one forces anyone else to go, and therefore noone forces you to abide by their rules.
Have I missed something somewhere along the line that says only anglo saxons are exclusively allowed to hire out a venue 
A mans religion is his choice, and if it just happens to be different to yours then tough, live and let live 
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Kwaks
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| daz|n00by |
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daz|n00by
The Internet
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Kwaks
I'm not a fast rider
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Posted: 21:06 - 03 Jul 2006  Post subject: |
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Wasn't at you Daz, from your first post I could see it was a topic for discussion, but not at that level, some posts since have been a bit dubious though, and dragged the discussion down 
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tatters
Exxon Valdez
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
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| Posted: 21:08 - 03 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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| G wrote: |
Personally, I think what we are much more likely to see is the slow westernifcation of Islam.
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Of course this is one the best scenarios but is extermily differcult to achieve when you have a reilgon that was born out of desert warfare and is still very aggresive towards change, when a child is brought up beliving in a magic man in the sky and loads of other bollocks they have been basicly brain washed from birth which would make change very differcult.
| G wrote: |
I do not believe all muslims are evil nasty people trying to take over the world. Nor do I believe the same of all christians, though personally I see a lot more evidence of this.
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As l,ve stated before in another thread christanty has never been forced apoun people in such as islam has, theres not one single middle-easten/country from pakistan to turkey and all of north africa that has peacefully gone to islam all have fought massive wars against invading islamic armys and have lost, at first non-musilms were permitted if they payed a non-musilm tax but this changing over time and non-musilms were forced to choose between convertion or death.
| G wrote: |
I am not a Marxist, but nor do I consider that an insult.
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Meh, personal opinion on how you come across in your posts.
| G wrote: |
Personally I think a hell of a lot of what happens in the western world has no place 'in the western world'. I definitely don't like a lot of Islamic 'laws' either, but I'm not arogant enough to believe that my ways are the ultimate best ways*. |
Yes the western world is not perfect but most western ways are better, every technological achievement from medieval times to the present have been devloped in the west, islamic states have brough nothing to the world.
| G wrote: |
In some cases muslims have also helped us defend our rights to live 'free' lives.
*This may not be true 
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https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/BPMdotEXE/Random/O_RLY.jpg
of course there have been times when islamic people have been used as mercenarys (money and settling old scores is always more important than reilgon) 1st world war fighting the turks for example
But heres a classic example of not defending our rights to live 'free' lives.
https://www.geocities.com/myattns/sshandschardiv.jpg
| G wrote: |
Basically, they're all shit.
Picking on one particular sector and trying to persecute individuals for the actions of a relative few others, I consider to be totally unjust and unfair, who ever does it. |
Picking on the Nazis and the SS was unfair, most of them were desent good people but the fountains of there belifes and of there leaders was wrong so action had to be taken.
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Kwaks
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tatters
Exxon Valdez
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| Posted: 21:41 - 03 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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| kwaker6r wrote: | | Quote: | when a child is brought up beliving in a magic man in the sky and loads of other bollocks |
Where does 'God' live?
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Theres a God or Gods 
| kwaker6r wrote: |
| Quote: | thread christanty has never been forced |
Africa?India? The Crusades? |
Christany was spread in africa by small groups of missionaries just like in europe with the varouis cathloic saints not by the point of a sword
Christany was never brough to india, we only entered the country in the late 18th century and the chruch never got a real following, but islamic hordes invaded what is now pakisatin during the 7th to the 12th centuries and slaughtered the hindu and siki population that would not convert in islam which is why there is so much tension between india and pakistan right up to today.
The Crusades were all defenisve wars to prevent the spread of islam in the christain lands which once went as far as modern day iraq in the early 7th century, but they all falled with the fall of the byzantine empire (eastern roman empire) in the 16th century when the last eastern roman emperor Constantine XI Palaeologus died leading a last ditched defence of Constantinople which is now Istanbul in turkey. (if you want to know more about the spread of islam search for my post about it in another islamic thread last year)
| kwaker6r wrote: |
| Quote: | Picking on the Nazis and the SS was unfair, most of them were desent good people but the fountains of there belifes and of there leaders was wrong so action had to be taken. |
Most were decent but their beliefs were wrong then It was their beliefs that took away their decency  |
Same can be said about muslims
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Kwaks
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tatters
Exxon Valdez
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| Posted: 22:02 - 03 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Over the course of that afternoon, evening and next morning, the crusaders murdered almost every inhabitant of Jerusalem. Muslims, Jews, and even eastern Christians were all massacred. |
Your forgeting that during this peroid going back the the first ever siege warfare of ancient times if a city or fortress/hillfort/fortified town did not surrender and the it fell in a assualt the inhabitants would be slaughtered and the place looted.
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tatters
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| Posted: 22:09 - 03 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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Here some good info here from a historian about the crusades which is backup by a lot of other sites but l find this once is better writen.
https://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm
And theres information on the history of islam by a jewish author. (you could probley consider the jews as a neutral people as they have sufferd at the hands of both the muslims and christians)
https://www.shalomjerusalem.com/mohammedism/mohammedism11.html
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| Posted: 22:19 - 03 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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| tatters wrote: |
Of course this is one the best scenarios but is extermily differcult to achieve when you have a reilgon that was born out of desert warfare and is still very aggresive towards change, when a child is brought up beliving in a magic man in the sky and loads of other bollocks they have been basicly brain washed from birth which would make change very differcult. |
Sadly a lot of the western world teaches kids about a magic man in the sky - oh and we seem to be trying to get into the desert warfare too with our own war in the name of god .
I wouldn't consider the 'Westernisation' of anyone a particularly good thing myself.
As we can see, some people here are also still agressive to change  .
| Quote: | As l,ve stated before in another thread christanty has never been forced apoun people in such as islam has,.....
non-musilms were forced to choose between convertion or death.
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Oh yes it has, very much so.
Look at a lot of Africa and the pacific.
Even now, some Christian missionaries will only give medical aid to people who convert to Christianity (that's not in a normal interpretation of the bible, I'm sure.)
| Quote: |
Yes the western world is not perfect but most western ways are better, every technological achievement from medieval times to the present have been devloped in the west, islamic states have brough nothing to the world.
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Technological achievments like weapons of mass destruction, massive pollution, etc? I bet they think we're so great because we developed those.
A lot of Islamic states have brought massive amounts of oil to allow us to make all our fancy toys.
A lot have also been kept in a state where they can't develop thanks to western government actions.
Oh and have a look at Japan, where I believe quite a few recent inovations have come from.
| G wrote: |
In some cases muslims have also helped us defend our rights to live 'free' lives.
...
O RLY?
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Yes.
| Quote: | Picking on the Nazis and the SS was unfair, most of them were desent good people but the fountains of there belifes and of there leaders was wrong so action had to be taken. |
And I won't complain if you try and perscute those that stand up and say 'I am for killing people lesser than us'.
However when you want to persecute their friends because they worship the same god and read the same holy book, it seems the similarities are too the Nazis, not against them.
If Alton Towers is owned by an Islamic based company, I really don't see what the issue is - a Muslim company having one day a year where their massive grounds can be fully enjoyed by more devout muslims and slightly less so by the more 'loutish' end of British society?
Hardly seems that 'odd' or 'bad' to me.
If people have an issue with it, why not try and sort stuff out to make britain good for their own kind in a positive way, rather than sitting back and shouting at the people that /have/ made an effort . |
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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| Posted: 22:20 - 03 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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Well that's a nice unbiased site.
Not.
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tatters
Exxon Valdez
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Posted: 23:56 - 03 Jul 2006  Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | tatters wrote: |
Of course this is one the best scenarios but is extermily differcult to achieve when you have a reilgon that was born out of desert warfare and is still very aggresive towards change, when a child is brought up beliving in a magic man in the sky and loads of other bollocks they have been basicly brain washed from birth which would make change very differcult. |
| G wrote: |
Sadly a lot of the western world teaches kids about a magic man in the sky - oh and we seem to be trying to get into the desert warfare too with our own war in the name of god .
I wouldn't consider the 'Westernisation' of anyone a particularly good thing myself.
As we can see, some people here are also still agressive to change . |
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that all can manily be blamed on the USA, reglion does,nt really exist within the indigenous population and Afro-caribbean/far eastern population of europe any more you just have to look at the number of people who go to chruch still unlike large number in the USA. The Iraq occupation has nothing to do with god just oil and america throwing its weight around.
I hope your not considering me agressive to change G, l just want to preserve the the tradition and culture of britians past and that of my english ancestors which forged most of the 21st century western world against something which is complete alien that does,nt welcome modern ideas and technological progress.
| G wrote: | | tatters wrote: |
As l,ve stated before in another thread christanty has never been forced apoun people in such as islam has,.....
non-musilms were forced to choose between convertion or death.
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Oh yes it has, very much so.
Look at a lot of Africa and the pacific.
Even now, some Christian missionaries will only give medical aid to people who convert to Christianity (that's not in a normal interpretation of the bible, I'm sure.) |
That is wrong and un-chirstian if it is happening and l,m sure the which ever chruch it is would recive alot of flak from other chruchs for doing it, but there not threating using volience against the people just not sharing a resource with them.
| G wrote: | | tatters wrote: |
Yes the western world is not perfect but most western ways are better, every technological achievement from medieval times to the present have been devloped in the west, islamic states have brough nothing to the world.
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Technological achievments like weapons of mass destruction, massive pollution, etc? I bet they think we're so great because we developed those.
A lot of Islamic states have brought massive amounts of oil to allow us to make all our fancy toys.
A lot have also been kept in a state where they can't develop thanks to western government actions.
Oh and have a look at Japan, where I believe quite a few recent inovations have come from. |
Weapons of mass destruction is just human nature to have the bigger stick or rock than the other bloke, more advanced weapons are apart of a Technologically superior people it does,nt matter who or what you are making better ways to kill each other is human nature and the islamic states love it becasue when there not targeting the west they fight amount them selfs l,m sure mr khan had a big simle on his face when he swopped whis old black powder arabic musket for a western machine gun,
pollution is the unfortunate by product of a industrialized civilization and can,t be helped at the present time of course when industrialization was brough to the east with oil extraction in the 1960/70,s, they suddenly were having million of dolars of investment and jobs created which has really bitten the west in the arse because it once again gave islamic states wealth to spread islam again but by new methods of imgration and the so called "islam reilgon of peace" that they try to sell these days and of course illeducated and gullable people fall for.
You can,t class japan as a eastern country as the likes of the islamic states there never were and will never be a islamic state and are a prime example of a people who know a good deal and took advatage of western technogly before the 19th century the japnese were still in a medieval feudal society like europe was before the renaissance and were very isolate from the out side world but with in 50-70 years there have jumped form when we were in the 1200-1400,s to having the same industralzed society as us in the 1920-1940,s and gave us a good kick in balls in ww2 with matched technology, now thats fu*king amazing.
| G wrote: | | tatters wrote: |
Picking on the Nazis and the SS was unfair, most of them were desent good people but the fountains of there belifes and of there leaders was wrong so action had to be taken. |
And I won't complain if you try and perscute those that stand up and say 'I am for killing people lesser than us'.
However when you want to persecute their friends because they worship the same god and read the same holy book, it seems the similarities are too the Nazis, not against them. |
sacrifices would have to be made to create a better world and to rid the bad elments of islam which is most of it, people would have to move to a more moden version of islam like 21st century christianty which does exist in the western world but few follow it and those who do have been shunned by main stream muslims for example those who not to follow islamic law or homesexuals, change in islam has to come from the top but like some in chritianty the top blokes are stuffy old backwards men.
| G wrote: |
If Alton Towers is owned by an Islamic based company, I really don't see what the issue is - a Muslim company having one day a year where their massive grounds can be fully enjoyed by more devout muslims and slightly less so by the more 'loutish' end of British society?
Hardly seems that 'odd' or 'bad' to me. |
But could the same be said if it was the other way around if the park was european owned in an islamic state and they wanted a booze and bacon day. the fact is that they want to have islamic laws in the park for the day whats to stop lslamic law coming in the places such as bradford were there is mostly a muslium population and then spreading to the rest of the uk as the non-musilm population falls and the muslim population rises its already been esitmated that with current imgration and birth rates europeans will be a minority by 2060.
| G wrote: |
If people have an issue with it, why not try and sort stuff out to make britain good for their own kind in a positive way, rather than sitting back and shouting at the people that /have/ made an effort . |
The thing is we have everything down to the roads and factorys houses and infrastructure has been built by the "people who have issues" fathers and granfathers going back hundreads of years, l my self come from a very old saxon family which have done my great things for this country inculding losing alot of male member over the last 1000 years in defending the british way of life, when even the oldest groups muslims have only been in this country 30 years and more still come as imgrants and enjoy what they do not deserve and most of them show no loyalty to this country plus some have the cheack to blow our trains/bus,s up and kill our soldiers.
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Kwaks
I'm not a fast rider
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| Posted: 00:43 - 04 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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I am sorry Tatters, I will never agree with your views and tbh I find you critisising islam whilst at the same time trying to glorify the same acts perpetuated by christians.
| Quote: | l my self come from a very old saxon family which have done my great things for this country inculding losing alot of male member over the last 1000 years in defending the british way of life, |
And in the last 1000 years how many British people have been killed defending Britain from invading Islamics? Most British servicemen have been killed abroad either fighting other 'christian' countries or whilst expanding the Empire.
I might be picking you up wrong here, but it seems to me you feel superior to other races/religions, and if so m8 that ain't healthy. I for one don't feel threatened by people different to me, and to feel they are trying to change our way of life by subverssive methods seems to me to be a bit paranoid.
I believe every race/culture has something we can learn from, and every muslim I have met has been just a normal person, as do most foreign nationals/immigrants.
I don't really think you will understand my views, in the same way i don't understand yours, but I have to ask you did you come to these views yourself, or do you find your family and friends have the same feelings.
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tatters
Exxon Valdez
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| Posted: 03:03 - 04 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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| kwaker6r wrote: | I am sorry Tatters, I will never agree with your views and tbh I find you critisising islam whilst at the same time trying to glorify the same acts perpetuated by christians. |
Chirstians have done bad things in the past and l would,nt deny that, but most of what they have done is over shadowed by the conduct of islam since its creation in 622AD by a caravan rading brigand it does,nt take a genius to look at the facts and ignore the politically correct version of world events that the media portray in the news and in the movies, l tell it how its from that l learnt from the books and internet sources of historians and scholars after taking an intrest in eastern history after finding the last few centurys of the westen/eastern roman emipre history amzing many years ago.
| Quote: | [quote="tatters"]l my self come from a very old saxon family which have done my great things for this country inculding losing alot of male member over the last 1000 years in defending the british way of life, |
| kwaker6r wrote: |
And in the last 1000 years how many British people have been killed defending Britain from invading Islamics? Most British servicemen have been killed abroad either fighting other 'christian' countries or whilst expanding the Empire. |
The true casualty figures of the varoius crusade,s battles and seiges and the continuous flow of europeans/middle eastern peoples who were pilgrims renforments/mercenaries of both sides will never be know, but it is estimated at 10 million which is a lot when the worlds population was under 400 million at that time, the fact is that if islam was allow to steam roll across europe back then we could be very well still living in a 7th cenutry society or a much less advanced once. when you look at a islamic state before islam and after islam for example when islam destoyered the sassanids empire which was in modern day iraq/iran (part of the old parthian/persian empire), they were on par with the eastern roman emipre they even captured a roman emperor in battle and kept him as a prisioner, even before then that part of the world was the most powerfull and richest but after its islamifcation there was no progress.
After the fall of Constantinople and the final turkish incrusions of the 16th and 17th cenutrys the west really started to advance technologically wise and we went back to fighting each other (as they did between the crusades) and having empires etc up to the present day, during that time the middle east was no longer a threat as they could never really momount in invasion like the old days under one banner of islam (though the turks did still pose a small threat) as the western world became technologically more advanced and they basicy took back the whole middle east under the expaning european emipres , but since the coplase of the empires and the discovery of oil which has brough wealth+westen technology to the middle east the west is threated once again but this time by new tatics of thoose to who follow classical islam.
| kwaker6r wrote: |
I might be picking you up wrong here, but it seems to me you feel superior to other races/religions, and if so m8 that ain't healthy. I for one don't feel threatened by people different to me, and to feel they are trying to change our way of life by subverssive methods seems to me to be a bit paranoid.
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**My personal thoughts on race/religions**
Humans are humans what defines a person is there actions, l like others may refer to certain people as sub-humans like somalians asslym seekers for example they are mainly here for economcy reasons not escaping perscution they live off benfits and add nothing towards society, but there fellow somalians who stay in somalia and try to better there country but working and feeding them selfs are on par with those of us here that work and do not leech off others the same goes for chavs who live off benfits and add nothing to society, If a reilgous person acts fanatically in the mainly secular non-religous western world and expects society to bend over backwards for them that is sub-human behaivor be they musilm or christian.
| kwaker6r wrote: |
I believe every race/culture has something we can learn from, and every muslim I have met has been just a normal person, as do most foreign nationals/immigrants. |
I know and do work with a lot of muslims and immigrants l,ve have met a lot of good muslim who take islam very easly they wear western clothes only really go to pray etc on specail events some even drink but they are not common these leaving islam and re-formered muslim sites such as https://www.islam-watch.org and the links found on there, these people are what islam should be about in the 21st cenurty.
| kwaker6r wrote: |
I don't really think you will understand my views, in the same way i don't understand yours, but I have to ask you did you come to these views yourself, or do you find your family and friends have the same feelings. |
Came to these views my self through research and my intreset in history, few people do research the truth about islam and belive a lot of what they are told in the media which is wrong as the BBC for example can be extremly byist after all they are controled and funded by the govement regimes TV licence tax, the BNP on the other hand though who do have some desent people in the know with some good ideas are plauged with friday night paki bashing racist thugs.
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| innominate |
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innominate
Brolly Dolly
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| killa |
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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: 09:52 - 04 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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I’m all for this integration of cultures but I think in the current situation the Muslim population here in England are doing the equivalent of setting up a Jewish doughnut stall for Jews, in Nazi Germany.
We’ve quite happily integrated with other cultures and religions, but you don’t notice them, they don’t start up protests about the way us westerners do things, what we name our towns, why we fly our flags and why we celebrate century old traditions.
They don’t have special allocated days just for their people and they don’t push their weight around so much.
As I have said many many times before on this subject, there are far too many cases in today’s Britain of Muslims fucking around over here and making a bad name for peaceful ones who actually just go around living their normal lives in Britain without any fuss at all.
As this is a relatively new concept for Britons, you can’t expect everyone to run outside with open arms, because a lot of us watch TV and read news papers for our worldly information.
So the best thing for these people to do is get someone or a group of people to stand up for what they believe in, there has to be little or no confusion on this matter. We need explanations for their actions, this Alton Towers thing maybe false but the piss taking has and will happen in the future.
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Harley Godzisz
Trackday Trickster
Joined: 15 May 2004
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| Posted: 13:29 - 04 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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i think alton towers have a plan..... gather the largest groupof muslims in the UK then bomb the fcukers!!
problem solved |
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killa
Won't Shut Up
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byke95
World Chat Champion
Joined: 25 Mar 2004
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Steve H
World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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| Posted: 15:51 - 04 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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Maybe they have plans to hijack the Corkscrew and ride it into Big Ben
VERY poor taste - sorry 
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Slickfish
Crazy Courier
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G
The Voice of Reason
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daz|n00by
The Internet
Joined: 11 May 2004
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| Posted: 19:08 - 04 Jul 2006 Post subject: |
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Fair point G but can you explain why public swimming baths owned by local councils are closing on certain days now to allow only muslim women to attend?
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 17 years, 333 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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