250s...

[Jack_Cheese]

Which would you go for? But more importantly why would you make the choice. Later in the year I think i'll be getting one, and the main 4 i have narrowed it to are:

KTM EXC
Suzuki RM
Honda CR
Yamaha YZ250.

Now, The budget will be a tad over the grand mark, which means the KTM will be pushing the budget. What else will i need to budget for? How often are rebuilds? 8hrs or so? How much are parts? (no chance i'm paying for an engine rebuild on a smoker). Do i need to register it with the DVLA for greenlaning? Does it need to be taxed, insured and MOTd etc? If so, how hard will it be to register and insure?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but im not 100% on a lot of things.

Thanks in advance

Jack
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[cagiva gezzer]

Scrap the CR for a CRM and a RM for a RMX, otherwise you'll have to modify crossers to get them on the road.

Decide if you want a crosser or a trail bike.
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"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[Ste]

Not that it's on your list, but an XR250. Have a look at DirtBikeStore.com and XRStuff.co.uk for prices on servicing parts. XR's are pretty much indestructible though which is very useful.

For greenlaning the bike needs to be road legal, has to have tax, insurance and MOT same as with any other bike. Easier to get one that's already road registered than to register it with the DVLA yourself.

[Jack_Cheese]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Getting an off road bike road registered is likely to be a pain.

SVA test is £158 and on top of that you have all the mods that will need doing (such as a quiet exhaust, lights, horn).

And you could do with a charging system to run some lights, and the true moto cross bikes will not have a charging system.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Jack_Cheese]

Ahhh, i wasn't aware they ran a total loss system. Cheers for the heads up

Looks like i'll be going for the road versions then!
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[Jack_Cheese]

If i do buy a crosser, where can i use it? private land only, i presume...
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[Kickstart]

Hi

Yep, with the owners permission. And expect to be hassled by the police even then.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Ste]

[Jack_Cheese]

the grand excludes kit. I'd only have to pay for full engine rebuilds if it was a stroker. I could do a top-end myself.
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[mr.tattoo]

2 strokes are cheap and easy to maintain, they get dear when people dont look after then, wait till a 4 stroke goes pop, 800 quid rebuild time

[Jack_Cheese]

[lilredmachine]

[Jack_Cheese]

https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/downloads/dynocharts/Dyno-Suzuki2000-2004DRZ400S.gif

https://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/graphs/mitog1.gif

There's 7bhp in it. The FMX650 only puts out 35bhp and that's a bloody 650! I don't want a bike where i have to put on an expensive FCR carb, a very expensive stainless exhaust, and countless other mods to get it over 40bhp. The RM is a claimed 43bhp stock.

Jack
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[lilredmachine]

You have put up the graph for the 'S' model DRZ-400.

I clearly stated that I was talking about the 'E' model, which has higher lift and longer duration cams, a larger carb, an uncorked can and is about 15kg lighter than an 'S' DRZ. You can pick them up ready road registered off e-bay dirt cheap considering most are only a couple of years old.

That model does put out 42hp, it was a supermoto converted 'e' model that made the infamous 3.7 second to 60 dash.

Reading makes life easier...
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Bikes: too many, too much for one man to maintain anyway.

[Jack_Cheese]

tell me more...

How frequent are rebuilds?
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[lilredmachine]

Rebuilds are unnecessary unless there is a serious failure due to a manufacturing fault or user related error, even stuff like checking the valve clearences has been left for 8,000 miles or so of hard road use by some and they've still been in spec.

Obviously as with all singles oil and filter changes are frequent, every 600 miles or so is recommended i believe, however if you are considering pouring lots of expensive 2 stroke oil down the throat of an RM then you'll hardly find that an issue.

Apart from that, the only known issues i believe they have is that the automatic cam chain tensioner can fail, recommended that it is replaced by a manual one (there may have been a recall for this, not sure), and the steering head bearing can fail prematurely because of the oil that is carried in the frame heating it up then cooling it down.

The E model is documented as having less issues from the factory compared with the S model.

I have checked the oil and filter change frequency for the 'S' model (was unable to find the 'E' model) and Suzuki reckon oil every 3500 miles is ok, with a filter at the 11k mark. I would stick with the short intervals though, for longevity.
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Bikes: too many, too much for one man to maintain anyway.

[lilredmachine]

Just a note, it is blatantly obvious that for a hardcore motocross bike two stroke is the way to go, lighter, more powerful and nimble. However it sounds like you actually want a trail type bike for greenlaning type activities, for which those bikes will be a bit much (and a bit of a waste imo)

I'd set your sights a bit lower, maybe even something like Marjay's Pampera (or whatever it's called) 250 would be better. Longer service intervals, cultured enough to tackle the road a bit, pretty cheap to buy and still satisfy your lust for a 2 stroke...
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Bikes: too many, too much for one man to maintain anyway.

[Jack_Cheese]

I had a wee look at the pampera, but they seem quite rare, and i'm not sure how i'd be fixed for parts. Ideally i want a bike that i can go greenlaning on, and still tear up a motorcross track (after enough practice)

Cheers for your input though, most appreciated

Jack
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[andy198712]

whats your offroad experiance?

why are you content on gettin over 40bhp anyway?

this all sound like ON road talk to me, off road in order to ride something for any period of time you dont want massive power as it will wear you down and basicaly be TOO much

i've got a ktm 450 and power is amazing!! but on a dyno they come out at about high 30's, and the touque is about the same, this is with knobblies ect

but it will wheelie in 4th. and climb anything, and flip out any time if you blink and get hamfisted. on an mx track it would beat the crud outa me.

it's been 100% relieable always on the button, oil changed every 20 hours, filters every other, vavles checked at 40 hours, done just over 100 hours in 3 months, spot on, on the road, off it, its a MACHINE!!

[G]

I've been after a KTM EXC 2 stroke for a while as my 'ideal' dirtbike - weight is similar to the crossers and power isn't too far off for the 250/300cc versions. Note that the GAS GAS EC range is similar and also worth considering.

You should be able to get these bikes within budget, abiet maybe a few years older and not leaving you too much money for other stuff.

The CRM250 is a lot softer option, but the RMX

I thought there was special dispensation that meant you could register trail bikes with just an MOT, not an SVA test.
However, I still wouldn't go for a 'crosser for road stuff.

If you're worried about rebuilds, the issue isn't really to do with 4 stroke or 2 stroke; but how tuned the engine is.

Note that the proper 2 stroke enduro bikes can be /very/ fast, way faster than you need for green laning and only those really good are going to be making decent use of the extra power available over a lower powered bikes.

The KTM EXC 200 is very popular amongst green-laners and amateur enduro riders because they can make more use of the power available.