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Can I re-register a seized bike?

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Ghost
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Can I re-register a seized bike? Reply with quote

Not sure if this it quite the right place but mods feel free to move if it isn't. I've done a search on this topic but haven't been able to find anything so thought I'd ask a question or two.
Basically I've found a motorbike for sale local to me on Ebay

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1998-Yamaha-Thundercat_W0QQitemZ280198261518QQihZ018QQcategoryZ9809QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

https://i3.ebayimg.com/08/a/000/78/11/f776_1.JPG

for those of you who don't want to open the link for whatever reason I'll summarise here. Apparently the bike was seized/confiscated by police as the previous owner was caught riding without license/tax/insurance or whatever. I was under the impression that in this instance the vehicle is either destroyed or possibly sold on at a police auction, but it appears in this case the bike somehow found it's way to a private garage, where frame and identifying numbers were removed, V5/logbook was lost/destroyed and then this chap purchased the motorcycle with the intention of turning it into a track/off road bike only.
My question is this. Short of finding a new frame with logbook, and completely reframing the bike, changing registration numbers in the process, is there any way I could buy this and get it back on the road again legally?
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, and I thank you for reading!
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tutton
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhhm dont get me wrong here but as i was aware
the frame number and engine numbers needed to be registered on the v5?
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Ghost
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that's the thing. it's being sold with no V5 so it'd need re registering. I normally wouldn't touch it but I just thought I'd ask in case there might be a legitimate reason.
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tutton
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could well be stolen
gotta think about that too
as if i were stealing something id be the first person to remove traceable frame/engine numbers with a grinder =]
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Ghost
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. If it was seized for being ridden with no license/insurance then it should have been crushed, but I'm thinking somebody decided it was too nice to crush so sold it sneakily out the back of the compound and the frame and engine numbers were removed so it can't be traced. In that case the only way to get it on the road would be to re frame/engine it, which is more trouble than I want to go to for a dodgy bike so I think I'll just leave it.
Thanks for your help Smile
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tutton
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome.
in the long run, it will most likely be less trouble to just find a tidy bike, with no current issues like that, because your going to need to obviously take the engine out to fit the new frame etc,
Anyway good luck with the bike search.
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Ghost
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, looks like I'm just gonna have to save up a little bit more Sad
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks dodgy as heck to me.
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'd only be useful if you wanted a race bike. I guess it is a cheap way to get one though.

Thinking about it though. If you made your own bike completely from scratch. So using milling machines to make an engine and frame. Would you need to etch in a engine and frame number to get it road legal?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who woud buy a thundercat as a trackday bike?

I would stay a million mles from that TBH. "They told me" isn't going to cut it if it turns out the bike is stolen. Unless the seller can provide chekale proof that he owns it legally, it in't worth the risk (or a grand).
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Only real reason for destroying the engine & frame numbers is to hide the vehicles past. And the only reason I can think of for doing that is if it has a very dodgy past, such as being stolen (most likely) or being a category of write off that should not go back on the road.

If there is any truth in the story with the auction then it is a bike that as far as the police are concerned has been destroyed.

Not all bikes have engine numbers, but they must have a chassis number as far as I know.

All the best

Keith
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Ghost
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've sent the guy an email out of interest and he says he's got a full receipt and proof of purchase from the garage he bought it from, and he mentioned something about them putting new numbers on it and basing the receipt off those? Don't have a clue what that's all about as his english isn't too good but I don't think I'll be bothering with it either way.
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TUG
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you re frame the bike then its a different frame/bike numbers and you'd need an engine number to put on the form too to re reg it again, but i think doing that is legal then keep the stolen frame as a spare for track day or something?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

If you put a brand new frame on a bike then the new frame will come without numbers and will need to be stamped up.

Put a 2nd hand frame on a bike then effectively what you have done is put everything except your frame onto the 2nd hand frame. Registration wise it will be regarded as the bike that the 2nd hand frame came from.

A 2nd hand frame without a log book is effectively pretty worthless. A 2nd hand frame with a log book is worth a fair amount to thieves to use to give a new identity to a stolen bike (hence why an HPI check revealing a write off on a perfect condition bike can be a good pointer to it being a ringer).

Bike without frame numbers / log book / engine numbers is very dodgy. And the chances of anyone buying it in the future when you decide to sell it (even if it is legit) when the frame number has been tampered with is small.

All the best

Keith
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notify the police Thumbs Up they can bring the frame number up with some chemicals. The metal structure behind the original stamp will be different to that surrounding the letters, so even after being ground off, the frame number can still be read.

Jack
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:

Put a 2nd hand frame on a bike then effectively what you have done is put everything except your frame onto the 2nd hand frame. Registration wise it will be regarded as the bike that the 2nd hand frame came from.


My brother most definately re-framed his CBR1000F and kept it on his original documents.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geri wrote:
Kickstart wrote:

Put a 2nd hand frame on a bike then effectively what you have done is put everything except your frame onto the 2nd hand frame. Registration wise it will be regarded as the bike that the 2nd hand frame came from.


My brother most definately re-framed his CBR1000F and kept it on his original documents.


Would that be a brand new frame re-stamped with the number from the old one?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 17 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope it would be a used frame off a smashed imported French bike.

EDIT: I just texted him and he said "yep, I just filled the log-book in and put a note in saying bent frame".
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: 00:59 - 18 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's as good as stolen, it has no V5 and no frame or engine numbers, you have absolutely no idea what bike it is, no doubt was stolen and just had the numbers ground off, now someone reckons it'd worth a grand. By buying it you're just supporting bike thieves, arrange to view it, get an address and then call the police, ofcourse they probably won't do sod all.
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