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Matthie
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PostPosted: 04:56 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Ccm r30 Reply with quote

Right, I am thinking about getting a ccm supermoto in just under 2 months and I am looking for some advice. I have been looking at the R30 model to use as a everyday bike.

What's the difference between the Suzuki engine in the newer models and the rotax engine that was used in the older models in terms of power, reliability and general comparison?

I have read mixed reviews on the build quality and the service provided by ccm. Anyone have any first hand experience about this?

Any other helpfull pointers?

Cheers ccm geeks x

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chris-red
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PostPosted: 05:02 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Re: Ccm r30 Reply with quote

As far as I'm aweare the Rotax CCM's are alot less reliable than the Suzi ones.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Re: Ccm r30 Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
As far as I'm aweare the Rotax CCM's are alot less reliable than the Suzi ones.


But the Suzuki ones aren't as quick IIRC.
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truslack
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Re: Ccm r30 Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
As far as I'm aweare the Rotax CCM's are alot less reliable than the Suzi ones.

Rotax engines are pretty bullet proof, mine's going strong in the Armstrong (CCM) 500 23 years after it was made, and it's been thrashed about everywhere like it were a 2 stroke.
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G
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Re: Ccm r30 Reply with quote

Some people claim the Rotax is reliable, some that it can be really bad. Judging by the numbers of both, I'd say that it's not great odds on those that have bad experiences vs good (even 1:1 would be pretty damn bad).
The Rotax does make a bit more power, but at the expense of reliability.

The 650cc bikes have a tad more power than the 400, though not much, but a fair bit more weight. So I'd be tempted to (well, I did Smile ) go for the 404. Will handle off-road better.
It will require more revving to keep on the boil, but won't lose out if you do. Mine's an excellent town bike.
I wouldn't choose either for distance work either, unless you are happy actually sitting at 70mph. The wind can be bearable, but it's not so great to have a 400/650cc single working constantly at near max rpm.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't you write a review of the R30 G?

EDIT-

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=127107

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G
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 404 is the 400cc version, as I presume you've realised Smile.
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Pedd
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look on the ccm riders forum, all the info you will need about them is there. Thumbs Up
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the replies so far!

I was wondering how the R30 (600 version) and the 404 would stand up against say a 600 sports ect on the twisties. Obviously I will be riding with Jamie (looking to get a GXSR 750), hollis (ER6) and matt (hornet when it's fixed) alot of the time on rideouts ect, will it really get left behind that much or with some pushing hard and good riding will they just about keep in touch?

Nice review G, read the lot of it. Thumbs Up
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tutton
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont they have flywheel issues? Laughing
Do eeet!
Plus arnt they easier to steal, dont know who told me that.. Wink
like https://bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=165021
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G
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top speed of the supermotos in top gear isn't far off top speed of first gear on a fairly recent GSXR750.
If a sports bike 'on it' comes to any kind of straight, they're going to disapear. I'd have more fun on the CCM definitely, but for total speed and possibly practicality (getting from A to B) I'd go for a bigger bike.
A Husky TE610 is worth considering; more speed but not much more weight. However still only a little faster when compared to modern sports bikes.

Relative to an ER6 and then a hornet, it's going to mean pushing a bit less hard on the supermoto, but so relatively it's going to be a bit easier to keep up (a modern GSXR750 could easily double the power of the ER).
I went for a decent length ride with molotov a while ago (think I did about 200miles total, though he'd have done less); forget if his Hornet was restricted or not; don't think so (I seem to remember the washers, err, 'falling out' at somepoint on my driveway, think it was his anyway Smile). Wasn't /seriously/ trying as was trying to focus on IAMy stuff a bit (and don't really on the road these days).
Don't know how much faster he'd have been if I wasn't 'leading'.
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, so G, would you suggest the 404 or the R30?

I am looking for fun and decent speed on the twisties, alot of wheelie and stoppie ability and probally going to green lane it.

Not that bothered about top speed, I will probally end up keeping the FZ750 if I get it running (need to get out there today and fix it as it is my day off work!) for a while so I can use that if I have to commute on the motorway or something. Hmm insurance on two bikes at 17 is going to be a killer! Would probally just insure the FZ if I needed it.

I will probally end up getting a sports bike anyway when I am slightly older when I don't get raped by the insurance as much. Great thing about the SMs is the insurance costs! £400 for the R30 at 17 with 0ncb.
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, about the Husky TE610, did I read something about it being more highly strung than the ccms? Whats the service intervals like? I am looking for abit of reliability as I will be using it everyday.

Do you still have your 404 I can't remember if you had it in your garage?
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G
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do still have the 404; the 'reliable' suzuki engine big end bearing went!

The Husky is more highly strung than the Suzuki CCM, but maybe less than the Rotax. It has a wide ratio gearbox which means high speed cruising will be less bad for the engine.
Service intervals are 3000 miles.

I think I'd go for the TE, which doesn't weigh much more than the 404, but makes more power than the R30.

Otherwise, would go for the 404; often only two or three hp difference between the two CCMs at the top, yet the 404 weighs a decent chunk less.
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing I just remembered, I need to be able to carry a pillion for the odd occation (taking girls for rides... Wink ) Laughing .

I know the R30 has pillion pegs, do any of the others?
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G
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

They all can do as far as I know.
Mine doesn't, but it's the taller and lighter 'e' model.

Even if not, there are clamp-on pegs available.
Note the CCM is far from comfortable for distance; the seat is from a motocross bike. However, my 690 is even less comfortable I reckon, but was really helped with a £10.99 sheepskin pad.
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure they all do? I have only seen them on the R30 so far.

Here is an example of a R30 with the suzi engine:

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CCM-R30-Supermoto-650cc-Suzuki-engine-FSH-Mint-cond_W0QQitemZ290288372013QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycles?hash=item290288372013&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1318


A mint be not quite as low mileage 404:

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2003-CCM-404-DS-SILVER-ROAD-LEGAL-ON-OR-OFF-ROAD_W0QQitemZ280301579840QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycles?hash=item280301579840&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1318


And a 610, I don't like the looks as much of this one and it would need some road wheels put on it:

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/husqvarna-te-610-enduro-nov-2000-model_W0QQitemZ140294002883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycles?hash=item140294002883&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318


I am not looking to buy just yet, as I don't have quite enough saved yet, but which out of those would you suggest for an everyday bike?
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Yarri
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not get a KTM? 660 are proper hardcore version, guy was selling a 2004 KTM supermoto on ebay, it had less than 2k miles on in in mint condition. I wanted to get it for 1500 but other guy bidded at last minute and got it for 1600
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G
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect they're often taken off, but pretty sure I've seen them with them on them all.
Sorry, I should have said 'SM610', as that's what the supermoto model is sold as, as far as I know (though you might be surprised what you can do on decent road tyres in trail bike sizes, but that's another matter.)
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, they make some tasty bikes. Drooling

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HUSQVARNA-570SMR-SUPERMOTO-2002_W0QQitemZ270329070961QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycles?hash=item270329070961&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1318
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G
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 16 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 570 is firmly in the competition side of supermoto if I remember.

Very low weight and lots of power, but service intervals in the tens at very best.
The Later 610s do look quite tarty too, if you like that sort of thing.
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 02:53 - 18 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this abit weird, the 404 produces 40bhp stock so you could probally get about 44bhp out of it with a pipe/small tuning (airbox mod ect).

The R30 644 version with the suzi engine produces 43bhp stock and can be 'tuned' up to 46bhp with mods.

So basically, the 404 is going to have a better power to weight ratio so is going to be quicker right?

Another quick question, how does the 404 cope with cruising at around 80mph? Will that nacker it very quickly if you sat for a hours journey at 80mph on the motorway?
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Matthie
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PostPosted: 02:57 - 18 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, I am properly confused now, just looked at another site (https://www.glass.co.uk/SP/MOTORBIKE/CCM/R30/NO%20LINK%20(0001)_0_DOORS_(FROM_07-2001_TO_10-2007)/R30%20644CC%20S%20SUPERMOTO%20S_93006001.html) and that says the R30 has 53bhp... I think that is very on the generous side?

Basically, what I want to know is what is going to be quicker, the 404 or the R30 644? Laughing
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G
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PostPosted: 10:14 - 18 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

53hp is maybe a generous manufacturers crank figure - or maybe is a claimed figure for the Rotax?.
The 644 will be a tad quicker, but at the expensive of a little bit of handling and a decent chunk of off-road ability.

Power to weight doesn't always mean quicker; look at lots of fast cars that can hit 200 with quite a lot worse power/weight than similar fast bikes.
More power gives you more top speed.

I doubt it'd be ideal for either bike to be cruising at 80; I'd be considering up-gearing (losing out on acceleration a tad) if I was doing that. I geared my KTM to do a theoritcal 125 or so in top when I was using it for lots of distance cruising.

I'd still get the Husky (sm)610.

Probably a bit more than you want to spend, but this has tarty modern styling etc:

https://pictures.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=846097633


Last edited by G on 11:20 - 18 Jan 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Irezumi aka Reuben
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PostPosted: 11:06 - 18 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

A re-geared DRZ400sm sits at 75-80 fine and doesnt loose out on bottom end, would assume the same can be said for the CCM.

Having tried a few supermotos (and owning one) I wouldnt consider one if going on high speed roads for any serious amount of time (over 50mins imo) is in your consideration. 20-60mph B-roads are where they excel, and gravel lanes/trails.
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