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How to Derestrict my '02 CBR600F Sport

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p0peye
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again,
long time no ... read.
Smile
So - I gave up. Looking for an alternative solution, that is.
And I found an offer on e-bay.uk (100% positive feedback out of 319):
"HELLO HERE IS MY LOCK SET IN EXCELLENT WORKING CONDITION AND READY BOLT STRAIGHT ON AND USE. IT CONSISTS OF IGNITION LOCK COMPLETE WITH UNCRASHED STRAIGHT TOP YOLK, BOOT LOCK, TANK FLAP AND LOCK COMPLETE, MAIN BRAIN, ALARM FOB, PROGRAMMED IGNITION KEY AND MOVEMENT SENSOR. THEY ALL CAME FROM ONE BIKE SO ONE KEY FITS ALL AND THE BRAIN AND SENSOR MATCHES THE KEY. THERES NO BUY IT NOW SO DONT ASK."
Start price:1 GBP.
I made my final bid : 143 gbp, and came back to see what happened the day after the bidding ended (I was on vacation, had no net connection near by)
It turned out that I got it for 72 GBP!
Yipiiiiiiiiiiiii!
Now all I have to do is to find one more key and make a spare copy - to code it.
Thank you all for your help, I will inform you how it fits the bike - once I get it Smile
Cheers!
p.s. - can anyone tell me how much would Honda dealer charge me if I make a key (and code it to match my new CDI) in UK?
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was quoted £50 to have a key coded to my bike, as doing it requires a "Honda special tool" and lifting the tank up to get to part of the wiring.

I ordered a key blank from David Silvers, got my local locksmiths to cut it and then coded it myself. David Silvers sell the special key coding "tool" for about £20. It's jut a length of wire with 2 crocodile clips to attach to the battery, and a little red plug that plugs into the wiring loom.

It details in Haynes how to do it, and what part # the tool is Smile
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Chriss
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silly question, could a power commander not get round this?

I assume the ECU is just restricting the bike via the fuelling...?
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p0peye
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noxious89123 wrote:
I was quoted £50 to have a key coded to my bike, as doing it requires a "Honda special tool" and lifting the tank up to get to part of the wiring.

I ordered a key blank from David Silvers, got my local locksmiths to cut it and then coded it myself. David Silvers sell the special key coding "tool" for about £20. It's jut a length of wire with 2 crocodile clips to attach to the battery, and a little red plug that plugs into the wiring loom.

It details in Haynes how to do it, and what part # the tool is Smile


Yes, I supposed I could use your quotation on Haynes instruction on how to do it, but I was not sure if it could be done just with new CDI and set of keys, or with old CDI and new key as well.

So, I should buy a new blank key, go to locksmith to cut it and then follow your instructions (Posted: 21:58 - 03 Jul 2009 - quoted Heynes) to code it - right?

Chriss wrote:
Silly question, could a power commander not get round this?

I assume the ECU is just restricting the bike via the fuelling...?


I was thinking in same direction, but it looks like the ECU is also limiting the revs.
Anyway - I wrote to DynoJet Power Commander twice and get NO ANSWER Sad
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Ichy
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made my own cable and coded the key myself. The key cost £20 +vat, £2 to get it cut, and less than £1 for the bits to make a cable. Took about 20 minutes to do it. Cheapest dealer wanted £55, the most expensive was over £70 Shocked
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently all the "tool" does is supply 5v to that connector instead of 12v, which puts the bike into diagnostic mode.

p0peye, I'm not quit sure what you mean? So long as you have a working key, you can make another identical copy of that key.
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Chriss
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PostPosted: 05:20 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

p0peye wrote:
I was thinking in same direction, but it looks like the ECU is also limiting the revs.
Anyway - I wrote to DynoJet Power Commander twice and get NO ANSWER Sad


I'd assume its' restricting it by not giving enough fuel for it to rev past a certain point.

I'll see if I can phone Dynojet UK for you today.
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p0peye
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Noxious89123

Noxious89123 wrote:
Im sure you can just get new blank keys cut to match your locks, and thn get them coded for the new ECU...

Let me just get the haynes out and I'll type up what it says...

Haynes wrote:

To register new keys with a new ICU/ECM (electronic control module)
28. Obtain a new ICU/ECM along with two (or more if you want) new keys. Install the ICU/ECM (See section 5 or chapter 4). Have the keys cut to match the original key for your inition switch.

29. Insert a new key into the switch and turn it ON. The indicator (it means the HISS light) should now come on for two seconds, then begin to flash repeatedly four times. This indicates that the system has registered the new key. If the indicator stays on for ten seconds then starts to flash, then there is a fault in the system, which will have gone into fault diagnosis, and the pattern of the flashes it emits should be matched with the fault code (listed elsewhere, if you need them ask).

30. Turn the ignition OFF and remove the key.

31. Insert the second new key and turn the ignition ON. The indicator should now come on for two seconds, then begin to flash repeatedly four times. This indicates that the system has registered the second new key.

32. Turn the ignition OFF and remove the key.

33. The new ICU/ECM will only register two new keys at this stage. If you have a third that you want to register, refer to steps 4 and 10 to register it, noting that you will need the special tool (which I have if anyone needs to use it. pm me) mentioned therein.

34. Check that both newly registered keys can start the motorcycle.



Note: Make sure the 2 keys are kept really far apart when doing all this. When I was coding a new key, I found that if they were anywhere near each other they caused problems.

HTH


This is the procedure "how to code 2 new keys to a new CDI".
When my used CDI (and 1 key and locks.......) arrive,
But - my situation is slightly different: I'll get a used CDI, with one key. So - I will have to buy another blank key.

My question is: what should be my steps to code my spare key once I exchange all the other parts (well - not all of them - just the CDI and locks)

P.s. - is it not a little strange to code a key that easy?
One could take a picture of your key and use a little file to cut it, and then go to your bike and code it... Confused

Also - what is my first key needed for - in your described procedure - both keys are new, but everybody says it is much much easyer and cheaper to code another key if you have one already. So I suppose in my situation, I would have to do something with my coded key first, to put the CDI in some "ready" mode, and then to code the other key... Confused
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p0peye
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Noxious89123

Noxious89123 wrote:
Im sure you can just get new blank keys cut to match your locks, and thn get them coded for the new ECU...

Let me just get the haynes out and I'll type up what it says...

Haynes wrote:

To register new keys with a new ICU/ECM (electronic control module)
28. Obtain a new ICU/ECM along with two (or more if you want) new keys. Install the ICU/ECM (See section 5 or chapter 4). Have the keys cut to match the original key for your inition switch.

29. Insert a new key into the switch and turn it ON. The indicator (it means the HISS light) should now come on for two seconds, then begin to flash repeatedly four times. This indicates that the system has registered the new key. If the indicator stays on for ten seconds then starts to flash, then there is a fault in the system, which will have gone into fault diagnosis, and the pattern of the flashes it emits should be matched with the fault code (listed elsewhere, if you need them ask).

30. Turn the ignition OFF and remove the key.

31. Insert the second new key and turn the ignition ON. The indicator should now come on for two seconds, then begin to flash repeatedly four times. This indicates that the system has registered the second new key.

32. Turn the ignition OFF and remove the key.

33. The new ICU/ECM will only register two new keys at this stage. If you have a third that you want to register, refer to steps 4 and 10 to register it, noting that you will need the special tool (which I have if anyone needs to use it. pm me) mentioned therein.

34. Check that both newly registered keys can start the motorcycle.



Note: Make sure the 2 keys are kept really far apart when doing all this. When I was coding a new key, I found that if they were anywhere near each other they caused problems.

HTH


This is the procedure "how to code 2 new keys to a new CDI".
When my used CDI (and 1 key and locks.......) arrive,
But - my situation is slightly different: I'll get a used CDI, with one key. So - I will have to buy another blank key.

My question is: what should be my steps to code my spare key once I exchange all the other parts (well - not all of them - just the CDI and locks)

P.s. - is it not a little strange to code a key that easy?
One could take a picture of your key and use a little file to cut it, and then go to your bike and code it... Confused

Also - what is my first key needed for - in your described procedure - both keys are new, but everybody says it is much much easyer and cheaper to code another key if you have one already. So I suppose in my situation, I would have to do something with my coded key first, to put the CDI in some "ready" mode, and then to code the other key... Confused

@Chriss:
Thanks, but as I said - I bought another used CDI, so I am not interested in PC anymore. It would be interesting to hear what they'll answer, though...
Thanks again Smile
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the procedure for coding keys to a *new* ECU, that has NO keys currently coded to it.

If your coding a key to an ECU that already has a key coded, it' slightly different.

It's not quite "that easy", because you NEED a working key to code another, you also need the special tool. You then need to get the seat off the bike to get access to the battery, and lift the tank up and support it (or remove it) to get access to the wiring connector that you need to get at.

I'd highly recommend you buy yourself a Haynes, they're only about £15 and it's been like a bible to me Laughing
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p0peye
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Noxious89123:

Not that I claim that others aren't been friendly and helpful (on the contrary - thank you all very much Smile ) - but you really put your self in to helping me.... Smile

So, I accidentally bumped into this 600RR tread,:

zakly16: https://www.cr-x.org/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54412

And here is my (copy paste) small contribution to this great community:
IMPORTANT: This is quotation from 600RR treat - I just hope the procedure can be applied to F4i)
Quote:

As i dont have a Honda Dealer any place close, After a lot of searching i need to order a blank get it cut and follow the procedure below:
1. Obtain a new transponder key.
2. Grind the key in accordance with the shape of the original key.
3. Apply 12V battery voltage to the ignition pulse generator lines of the engine control module (ECM) using the special tool (page 20-5).
4. Turn the ignition switch ON with the original key. The immobiliser indicator comes on and it remains on.
*The code of the original key is recognised by the ECM.
*If there is any problem in the immobiliser system, the system will enter the diagnostic mode and the indicator will remain on for approx. ten seconds, then it will indicate the diagnostic code (page 20-5).
5. Disconnect the red clip of the inspection adaptor from the battery positive (+) terminal for two seconds or more, then connect it again. The indicator remains on for approx. two seconds, then it blinks four times repeatedly.
*The immobiliser system (HISS) enters the registration mode. Registrations of all key except the original key inserted in the ignition switch are cancelled. (Registration of the lost key or spare key is cancelled.)
NOTE:
The spare key must be registered again.
6. Turn the ignition switch OFF and remove the key.
7. Turn the ignition switch ON with a new key or the spare key. (Never use the key registered in previous step.) The indicator comes on for two seconds, then it blinks four times repeatedly.
*The new key or spare key is registered in the ECM.
*If there is any problem in the registration, the system will enter the diagnostic mode and the indicator will remain on for approx. ten seconds, then it will indicate the diagnostic code (page 20-6).
CAUTION:
Keep the other transponder key away from the immobiliser receiver more than 50mm (2.0 in).
8. Repeat the steps 6 and 7 when you continuously register the other new key.
NOTE:
The ECM can store up to four key codes. (The four keys can be registered.)
9. Turn the ignition switch OFF, remove the inspection adaptor and connect the ignition pulse generator connector.
10. Turn the ignition ON with the registered key.
*The immobiliser system (HISS) returns to the normal mode.
11. Check that the engine can be started using all registered key.

Aparently it is in the service manual but for the life of me i cant find it.
The tool used as per one discussion is just 2 wires for positive and negative off the battery. On the other the positive wire has some kind of resistor?


and the next post:
Quote:

In case anyone wanted to know the rest of the story


Hi Chris - I know how you feel. The procedure sounds quite daunting until you have done it
I suppose it is the same for a brain surgeon, the first time he enters someones head??
The special tool part number 07XMZ-MBW0100 from Honda costs about £91 inc VAT. One end of the tool has croc-clips and the other has a female two-pinned Sumitomo plug.
It is comprised of two wires, positive and negative from the battery and connects to the male-pinned two-pin Sumitomo plug. There is a diode protection in series in the tool.

1) Buy a new HISS key from your favorite Honda dealer.

2) Reach inside the O/S Middle Fairing vent and locate the two-pinned plug located above the radiator top hose (well that is where it is on my DV - 51 reg). It has white and white yellow wires.

3) Disconnect plug and connect tool.

4) Connect other end to battery Red to positive and black to chassis/earth.

5) Turn on ignition using your *good* HISS ignition key. Leave on for at least ten seconds. Green HISS ignition light comes on and stays on. If it doesn't, you've got other problems and it won't just be a re-programming problem.

6) Disconnect Battery positive croc-clip for two seconds.

7) Now reconnect battery positive croc-clip. The HISS light will come on for only two seconds and then go out. It will then start flashing *four times* pause and then flash *four times* repeatedly. This tells you that the system is now in "Key Registration Mode".

*All* keys have now been cancelled (including any you have lost or has been stolen) and will need to be re-programmed. Turn off your ignition and remove key from ignition. Place this key *well away* from ignition and headstock area of DV. In your pocket will do.

9) Insert new HISS key and turn ignition on. HISS green light will come on for two seconds and then flash *four times* pause and then flash *four times* repeatedly. This key is now also registered.

10) Repeat for any other keys you have as they will need to be re-registered up to a maximum of four keys in total at any one time.

11) On completion, turn off ignition remove HISS wiring harness tool and re-fit original harness plug and return any weather proofing gaiters and boots.

12) Go for a jolly nice ride testing out your newly registered keys.

13) Place spare HISS keys in a safe place. Then go for another jolly nice ride


Now - I was wondering if there is any way to program my old 2 keys with this new CDI.
Maybe like this:
- I cut a blank key (with no chip) to fit my OLD locks;
- I start the procedure by putting this newly cut key in the lock, and keeping the original key (that match my new CDI) near.
- Once the process started, I insert my old keys and register them with the new CDI...

The only question (or - one of) is: can the already programed key be reprogrammed to fit another CDI

Now - if you claim that all this tool do is
Quote:

Apparently all the "tool" does is supply 5v to that connector instead of 12v, which puts the bike into diagnostic mode.

I (my best friend, that is) can easily make one in no time... Wink

Noxious89123 wrote:

I'd highly recommend you buy yourself a Haynes, they're only about £15 and it's been like a bible to me Laughing


I already have printed a Honda's manual, but if you say there are other info in Haynes (and obviously - there is) - I might just do it... Smile

p.s. - I am just trying to make my life easier - it would be much more easier (and cheaper, but never mind that) just to swap the CDI and use my old keys... But I've got the locks anyway, so if it is not possible - I will change all that must be changed... Smile

Cheers
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

That first quote looks like it has been copy pasted from the Haynes manual! Laughing

That's looks totally accurate to what it says.

Regarding how the tool works, I'm not very sure about it at all, it is merely what i have read elsewher, and even then i think it may have been speculation. That post you quoted says it supplies 12v.

And it might be £91 from Honda, but it's only £20 or so from David silvers spares.

Regarding coding your old key to the 2nd hand ECU, it should be possible. It's the ECU that stores all the onfo, the keys merely have a set code programmed into them. You just programming the ECU to tell it which keys to allow to shut off the immobiliser.

What i think you would need to do is;

Get a blank key WITHOUT a chip in it, cut to fit your current locks.

You could maybe manage by getting a standard key, and then cutting the black part off with a hacksaw and using a pair of mole grips or pliers to grip it and turn it in the lock?

Fit the new ECM.

Hold the 2nd hand ECU's key near the ignition, and turn on the ignition switch with the butchered key.

Use that to start the key coding procedure. Once you've got the blinking light and the bike is in "key coding mode", turn off the ignition, and remove the butchered key from the lock, and get the 2nd hand ECU's key away from the bike.

Use your old ECU's key to turn the ignition on. The the "HISS green light will come on for two seconds and then flash *four times* pause and then flash *four times* repeatedly. This key is now also registered. "

That way your old key should work with the new ECU.

You can then go and get a proper key blank, get it cut for your locks and then code that in "as normal".

Tada, 2 working keys with a new ECU and your old locks.

Can't see any reason why it shouldn't work. I'd just be careful about how you go about using the butchered key, wouldn't want it to get stuck in the lock or anything like that!
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p0peye
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noxious89123 wrote:
That first quote looks like it has been copy pasted from the Haynes manual! Laughing

;D
Quote:

.........
And it might be £91 from Honda, but it's only £20 or so from David silvers spares.

That is not a lot - I just get tired thinking of the procedure I'll have to go trough to buy it - and get delivered here in Serbia... Sad
Quote:

Regarding coding your old key to the 2nd hand ECU, it should be possible.

It might not be the trouth, but just for the record: you just made my day by saying that... ;D

Quote:
It's the ECU that stores all the info, the keys merely have a set code programmed into them. You just programming the ECU to tell it which keys to allow to shut off the immobiliser.

Now - this is very important: are you absolutely totally 120% sure of this fact?
[/quote]
Quote:
What i think you would need to do is;

Get a blank key WITHOUT a chip in it, cut to fit your current locks.

You could maybe manage by getting a standard key, and then cutting the black part off with a hacksaw and using a pair of mole grips or pliers to grip it and turn it in the lock?

I am quite sure I should be able to find a codeless key that can fit the lock (a car or smthng...)
Quote:

Fit the new ECM.

Hold the 2nd hand ECU's key near the ignition, and turn on the ignition switch with the butchered key.

Use that to start the key coding procedure. Once you've got the blinking light and the bike is in "key coding mode", turn off the ignition, and remove the butchered key from the lock, and get the 2nd hand ECU's key away from the bike.

Use your old ECU's key to turn the ignition on. The the "HISS green light will come on for two seconds and then flash *four times* pause and then flash *four times* repeatedly. This key is now also registered. "

That way your old key should work with the new ECU.

You can then go and get a proper key blank, get it cut for your locks and then code that in "as normal".

Just one correction:

I have 2 keys for my current ECU
Smile
Quote:


Tada, 2 working keys with a new ECU and your old locks.

Can't see any reason why it shouldn't work. I'd just be careful about how you go about using the butchered key, wouldn't want it to get stuck in the lock or anything like that!

I hope I won't have to cut the key. Anyway - I am quite sure (I red on some other forum) that the code chip is that little black plastic part that looks inserted on one part of the key.
All I would have to do is to take it out.
P.s. - that same post said that one could take that one off, and the active code chip from another working key - and glue it on this other key that can match the lock... Not that I am interested in that kind of exhibition... Wink

P.s. - thanks again - what else can I do when you are too far to buy you a drink Wink
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Chriss
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

p0peye wrote:
P.s. - thanks again - what else can I do when you are too far to buy you a drink Wink


Post a cheque? Laughing
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, don't worry about it Smile

I just like to help when I can, and actually be useful and appreciated Smile

Regarding the keys, they just contain a coded transponder, it's the ECU that reads the code in the key, and decides whether or not to let it start the bike. So basically, I'm quite* sure.

*However, I can't be 100% sure, as I've never actually tried it. But the logic is there!

At any rate, it's worth a shot. If it doesn't work, all you've lost is some time, and the cost of a key. If it works, you save yourself the trouble of fitting the new locks.

Oh, and having 2 keys for your current ECU is a bonus Very Happy

Hope that covers everything!
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p0peye
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PostPosted: 09:30 - 21 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumbs Up

I'll post an report as soon as I try it. However - if we have in mind that I bought my bike in oct '07, and tried to de-restrict it at the beginning of this year for the first time - I suppose I'll change the ECU's in march 2011... Sad
Naaaaah.
I'll just:
- accidentally initialize the arguing (read it: the fight) with my wife on Friday afternoon;
- she'll launch me out of the house;
- I'll stick my head in the garage;
- and come back in Sunday night - with the flowers... Wink

p.s. - I know that I should be able to do the work in few hours, so for everyone wondering what will I do on Sa & Su:

I'LL BE DRIVING!

Smile

Thanks everyone Smile

p.s. - one more thing - can you give me the part number (or the web addr) for that little peace of... wires I should order...?

Also can you take a picture when you catch some free time and post it here. If it really is just applying 12V (it can be terminated on the look of that gismo: If that's JUST 2 wires with clips on one side and jack on the other - it's certainly 12V. Now - if there are any electronic on it - I suppose the Voltage is converted to less then 12V...
Please don't call me "mr.demandy"- but I also would appreciate a picture of the jack and pins where I should apply it ("ignition pulse generator" - we wouldn't like me to miss the right wire - would we? - Anyone out there having a Haynes manual and care to share the pic? Smile - I suppose the phone camera would do the trick...).
Anyway - let me try and do my homework: according to the diagram

https://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6889/f4iwdpipg2.th.png
https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3803/f4iwdpipg.th.png


- it shoud be:
- Y - yellow wire (pos. 11 on LG - Light Gray ECU jack)
- The other one that comes out of the "ignition pulse generator" - Y/W - yellow white - is hardly the right one...?
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p0peye
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey bikers,

Long time no... read Smile

Ok, you all thought I forgot to inform you when I swapped the ECU, right? Smile And that I was exaggerating when I made a joke:

p0peye wrote:
... I suppose I'll change the ECU's in march 2011... Sad ...

Well, maybe just a bit. Smile
Few weeks ago, I finally did a swap. Took me 15-20 min.

What I did:
- A locksmith grind(ed) a blank key (with no chip) according my old key (approx 5€).
- I took the old ECU out, plugged the new one.
- When I start the bike, I just put the "matching" Coded key near the HISS reader, let the pump do it's job, and - start the bike Smile

Now, this is a STRICTLY temporary solution ( I even do not dare to think of the scenario if I lost this ONLY key matching my new 110 PS ECU) Cool

And boy, is it a different bike. Now, this is THE feeling... Smile

I'll have to go trough all this posts again to try to remember how to code my old keys with this new ECU, and this time it MUST be soon, as I am afraid I could loose this one key...

So - basically, this post is just to inform you my bike runs as the God meant she should Smile
And to thank you all again for such a great help. You gave me so much useful info here that made my life so much easier. I just hope I could return it someday... Smile
Cheers

p.s. - I'll keep you informed how my "Operation: Code the Old Keys" went on. Smile

@ Noxious89123: So... 23/01/2010 is over... And how do you like this "little" extra power...? Smile
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Noxious89123
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, glad to hear you got it sorted Smile

Haha, I never kept my restrion in place for the whole 2 years, I took them out about 3 months after having them fitted.

But yeah, my bike is going sweet. I've since had the suspension rebuilt and fitted an aftermarket exhaust. Nice improvement to the handling, restoring some of the damping that had been lost over the years. And the new can with the baffles out sounds awesome. Next on the list is a K&N filter, a DynoJet kit and some yno time.

Need a new car first though. Smile
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