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Electricians, What size cable to run from house to shed?

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t121anf
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Electricians, What size cable to run from house to shed? Reply with quote

laying some paving and decking at the moment and i plan to put a shed on the paved area.

i'd like power in the shed for simple things like lights, powering a laptop for music etc.

what size cable should i run from the house to the shed?

need to know so i can lay the correct size trunking (tubing) in readiness for it to fed through at a later date.

thanks
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Fawbish
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

We cant tell you unless we know how far the house is from the shed. But in reality, even if its 50 odd metres away, you aint gonna lose much on a 230Vac supply. Just make sure you got a decent breaker at the end of it, depending on how much stuff you'll be running on the other end.

I take it you'll be using normal 2-core + earth if you're using trunking? Otherwise, if money aint an issue, I'd suggest SWA (Steel Wire Armoured) cable for protection from the elements.

If using normal 2-core + earth you want to be looking at 6mm or a little bigger cables. Wouldnt go much smaller than 6mm.

If using SWA, 6mm or 10mm would be cool.
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

shed would be about 10-15 metres away.

i was planning 2 core + earth.
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Fawbish
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

6mm 2core+earth should suffice tbh. Off top of my head, it'll handle upto around 32 amps, so nothing should really be pushing that much. 20 amp MCB should cover it. However, if you want a proper house sparkies advice, Sparks! on here will know better than I.

Theres a big debate over whether you should have an RCD/mCB in the house or at the shed, but that really rests on legalities etc. as long as youre terminating safely and you've got a breaker before the (assumed) sockets etc, should be fine.

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t121anf
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's mainly the trunking i need to sort, my dad's actually and electictrian who will do all the proper work however getting a simple answer out of him is like pulling teeth.

i'd be running no more power than what a normal plug extension lead could cope with.
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tatters
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fawbish wrote:
6mm 2core+earth should suffice tbh. Off top of my head, it'll handle upto around 32 amps, so nothing should really be pushing that much. 20 amp MCB should cover it. However, if you want a proper house sparkies advice, Sparks! on here will know better than I.

Theres a big debate over whether you should have an RCD/mCB in the house or at the shed, but that really rests on legalities etc. as long as youre terminating safely and you've got a breaker before the (assumed) sockets etc, should be fine.

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6mm!!! He wants power to a shed not a electric cooker


2.5mm 3 core SWA buried between the house and shed, 20 amp RCD from the house then gland straight into a twin 13 amp socket at the shed.


theres loads of guides about online how to do it properly and old posts on here if you search for them
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 18 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

tatters wrote:
Fawbish wrote:
6mm 2core+earth should suffice tbh. Off top of my head, it'll handle upto around 32 amps, so nothing should really be pushing that much. 20 amp MCB should cover it. However, if you want a proper house sparkies advice, Sparks! on here will know better than I.

Theres a big debate over whether you should have an RCD/mCB in the house or at the shed, but that really rests on legalities etc. as long as youre terminating safely and you've got a breaker before the (assumed) sockets etc, should be fine.

Thumbs Up


6mm!!! He wants power to a shed not a electric cooker


2.5mm 3 core SWA buried between the house and shed, 20 amp RCD from the house then gland straight into a twin 13 amp socket at the shed.


theres loads of guides about online how to do it properly and old posts on here if you search for them


As above really, for a simple shed install of 1 socket 1 light.

2.5mm SWA buried, it's quite a thin cable so 25mm ducting should be fine as long as theres no crazy bends in it. Should lay some warning tape over the duct too before filling the hole back in..

Gland direct into a socket and then put a fuse spur in for the light... or gland into an isolator then go out to the socket/spur if you really want.

You shouldn't really use a fuse spur as a light switch but to be perfectly honest, in a shed, I would Wink
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

there will be some tight right handers in the ducting unfortunately, but i plan to run a length of clothes line through it to help pull the cable through.

2.5 i think is enough, iirc its a dam sight cheaper than 6mm too.
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Fawbish
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PostPosted: 11:09 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies. We run allsorts in our garage, often a few compressors, lighting, and bench tools at the same time, so I immedietely assumed the worst.


I did say people would know better though. Smile Thumbs Up
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map
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said above the 2.5mm solid core.
Ideally you will need it buried.
If you bury it you will also need armoured cable (helps stop things chewing it and also if someone tries to put a spade through it).
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

putting a spade through it wont be an option, its beside my new patio and will have decking over it.

ok if i sell the house then it might be an issue
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 13:47 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

t121anf wrote:
putting a spade through it wont be an option...
map wrote:
...helps stop things chewing it ...

It's not really the cutting it's the chewing by rodents and such.
FWIW 25m of 3 core armoured cable £31 - click here - Toolstation, although you may have your own supply.

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tutton
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not run it in conduit?
SWA is a pain in the arse to bend, get the zip ties out!
Id run 1.5mm singles out in metal conduit for such a small install personally, running it off a 32A rcd as it is going outside.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Thought 6mm cable sounded huge, but a quick check and it means 6mm area, so a bit under 3mm diameter.

What is the capacity of the single strand cable that you see in houses?

You can tell I avoid house electrics.

All the best

Keith
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nick606
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off the top of my head 1.5mm what you do lights in is 13-14amps. I'm not quite sure on 2.5 i think its about 18amps. It depends on the run of the cable and type of cable as well its all in the back of the 17th edition book. But your better underrating your breakers and overrating your cables than the other way around.
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nick606
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use a rccb and earth the metal sheathing of the swa. That should protect you even if you do manage to put a spade threw it although i wouldn't want to try it.


Question for the electricians what is the difference between a rccb and a rcbo because from what i can see they both do exactly the same job, just have different names?
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Mike_GSi16v
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok being an electrician myself i would recommend a 6.0mm SWA 3 core.

6.0MM is plenty man enough to run up the garden and you can put as much load as you wish (within reason) and decent lighting but you will need an earth stake by the shed for extra protection.

I would put the swa on a 32A mcb if protected by a main rcd. If there is no rcd then i suggest a 32A RCBO.

I would then, inside the shed, put a separate distribution board feeding lighting and power.
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

tutton wrote:
Why not run it in conduit?
SWA is a pain in the arse to bend, get the zip ties out!
Id run 1.5mm singles out in metal conduit for such a small install personally, running it off a 32A rcd as it is going outside.


Please ignore this advice!
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike_GSi16v wrote:
Ok being an electrician myself i would recommend a 6.0mm SWA 3 core.

6.0MM is plenty man enough to run up the garden and you can put as much load as you wish (within reason) and decent lighting but you will need an earth stake by the shed for extra protection.

I would put the swa on a 32A mcb if protected by a main rcd. If there is no rcd then i suggest a 32A RCBO.

I would then, inside the shed, put a separate distribution board feeding lighting and power.


That's what I'd do personally, however its a bloody expensive way of getting 1 socket and a light in a shed Wink

So really depends what you want in your shed...
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tutton
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad i ment to say 2.5 singles in conduit,
as hes only going to be running sockets and lights...
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

tutton wrote:
My bad i ment to say 2.5 singles in conduit,
as hes only going to be running sockets and lights...


Even so it should be on a 16A RCBO not a 32A and if it's being buried under a patio it should really be an SWA in some form of ducting!

It'd also have to be steel conduit which most people don't have the tools to install it properly, so all in all, SWA is the way forward Wink
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tutton
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

But SWA is fiddly to make the glands off, without knowing how to do it the right way, and if you do it wrong youll cock up the gland and it wont be tight at all, which then would make a mockery of any bonding you did no?
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

tutton wrote:
But SWA is fiddly to make the glands off, without knowing how to do it the right way, and if you do it wrong youll cock up the gland and it wont be tight at all, which then would make a mockery of any bonding you did no?


He said he has his dad to help him who is a sparky so should know how to gland an SWA off, not many electricians have their own steel conduit benders, dies etc.. I personally don't and I do it for a living, we have a few in the yard I have access to, but I can make an SWA gland off with no special tools needed...

With regard to bonding... you'd have to then somehow get the steel conduit from outside, through the wall and connected to the fuseboard and socket either end to maintain continuity. Most houses I've been in this would be a /lot/ of hassle to do. You could get around this but it's getting really untidy and further away from meeting regs... he's also proposing 3 core SWA so the sheath isn't actually being relied on as an earth anyway (although should still be bolted to fuseboard and socket/spur/isolator properly... )


So still, SWA is the way forward.
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

all this for a wire :-O

glad i mess with computers sometimes
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

t121anf wrote:
all this for a wire :-O

glad i mess with computers sometimes


Don't worry, it's not nearly as complicated as tutton is making it..

SWA cable from house to shed in ducting, gland into a socket/spur whatever you fancy, 16A RCBO... a socket and light in shed done and dusted Thumbs Up
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