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Best way to remove rusted nuts?

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tixylix
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 15 Feb 2012    Post subject: Best way to remove rusted nuts? Reply with quote

I bought a cheap GPZ500S for 600 cause I needed something for the winter but I crashed it and the silencers ripped off. The current pipes on it from the exhaust are so mangled that I need to get them off and put new ones on. The problem I have is the four nuts holding them on are so badly rusted that when I tried to use a socket on them they rounded as all the rust fell off.

They look like this (random google pic)

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt267/semtex0/LTH%20Install/P1010368.jpg

The problem is that sloping bit on the back of the nut stops me from getting a nut splitter from cracking them off. I've tried heating them with a blow torch and that did nothing, I've obviously tried a nut splitter but all it did was remove half the nut so I cannot get anything on it.

Dunno what to do because I've got two badly rusted but I haven't touched them, one rounded and one in a mangled mess lol.

Anyone have any tips? I've been thinking about just getting an angle grinder, chopping them all off and welding on to the bolt. Not sure if that will work though.....

Also do the bolts on the engine unscrew anticlockwise?

Thanx.
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 15 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I last undid rusty headers, when a nut would round off with the correct size socket I'd go a size smaller, normally to the imperial size between the correct size socket and the one below. I hammered them on.

If you've got a welder and know how to use it you could weld a nut onto the top of the old ones. The heat generated would probably help loosen it too.

The studs are usually a normal thread (so left to unscrew), and can unscrew themselves if the nut is rusted on. I don't know of any that are a reverse thread.
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alun111
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 15 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, welder is definately the route to take if it's the header bolts. Works a charm!

Is there thread showing? If not, like you said, grind the old nuts off first. You'll be wanting to remove the studs,right?

Remember to disconnect your battery and ecu too!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 00:26 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've got room to get Irwin bolt grips on, then I'd give them a try.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N7EFNSJ5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

They're like little socket-shaped blobs of pure magic.

Security wheel bolts after successful removal with Irwins:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwXH1rRrB2mymqllzyUkNr0ZXkm7GPOw3b8UvrgsN_ia7CgoU5dyEwnMc1mA
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dungbug
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PostPosted: 00:29 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of WD40 & a descent pair of mole grips might do it, I've shifted rusty/knackered bolts before using the above. Thumbs Up
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haroman666
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammer and Chisel.

Create a dent in the nut and then hit it kinda sideways to "push" the nut around the thread.

Or as Roger said ^^^ Nut extractors.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you try anything clean the end of the studs with a wire brush attachment on an electric drill to remove as much crud as you can.

Apply penetrating oil over a period of days, don't use WD40, (it's a water dispersant, not penetrating oil), do the job over a weekend and apply more oil every hour, starting on Friday night, start the removal process on Sunday afternoon.

If the nuts are already mangled beyond using a socket or spanner, (and have been thoroughly doused in penetrating oil), try a set of "Mole Grips", if you've applied enough penetrating oil they might move.

If that fails use a "Dremmel" and carefully grind away as much of the nut as you can. Don't bother grinding off the big lip on the nut, just grind a flat away on one side. The heat generated will probably be enough to get them moving with the "moley's". You can achieve the same effect with a hand file it just takes longer and is awkward. Once you've ground down to the threads on the stud the nut will move, guaranteed.
If it's possible to do this with a hand file rather than the "Dremmel", then use the hand file, it's more controllable.

Another method you could try, (although as your dealing with the cylinder head it's a bit dodgy), is after drowning the studs in penetrating oil, try to get the nut moving by knocking it round with a nail punch. A nail punch is much better than a chisel, IMO. Don't hit the punch too hard and try and go at it from two different points on the nut.
Try tightening the nut first, all you need to achieve is a tiny movement to crack the corrosion that's holding the nut in place. Continual tapping rather than whacking will get the nut moving.

I've used the Dremmel/File method to remove mangled nuts from exhaust studs successfully, in the past.
WD40 is not what you need for this job penetrating oil is your friend!
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Taught2BCauti...
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Irwin's are brilliant - if you have a set - or can borrow one.

If not and you have the access, try cutting the nut with a hacksaw blade from top to bottom, parallel with the stud so you don't damage the thread too much. If that doesn't do the trick, do the same again on the opposite side of the stud - the nut should now be in 4 pieces, with the stud either removable or clean-up-able.
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neil.
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
If you've got room to get Irwin bolt grips on, then I'd give them a try.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N7EFNSJ5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

They're like little socket-shaped blobs of pure magic.

Security wheel bolts after successful removal with Irwins:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwXH1rRrB2mymqllzyUkNr0ZXkm7GPOw3b8UvrgsN_ia7CgoU5dyEwnMc1mA


+1 These are excellent!
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tixylix
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those Irwins didn't work, already tried them but they made it worse...

This is what it looks like down there

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z189/slannmage/20120216_164833.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z189/slannmage/20120216_164908.jpg

+ That is ACF50 all over it.
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RIDINGforKICK...
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

tixylix

You are already doing exactly the right things.

Just keep working at them, keep flooding them in oil, and working them, by whatever means, to get them to move on the threads.

Eventually they will "give".
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Taught2BCauti...
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just spotted this Irwin Nut Remover Set

About 5 less than I paid for mine!


Edit: Ahh, no fancy box, that's why!
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RIDINGforKICK...
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would give them a SERIOUS wire brushing, you are going to try and save those threads!

If you have a mini hacksaw, or a mini grinder like a dremel you can cut material away until the point where you can "open" the nuts, with a chisel, which your nut splitter would have done, if you could have got it in.
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tixylix
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 16 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

On one of the pics you can see the nut just fell apart and I'm left with that bit on the back of the nut and it still wont budge. What I'm going to do tomoz is chop them clean off and take the pipes off. I've taken the whole front of the bike off now so I have clear access and then once chopped off I'll just be left with the bolts on the engine. I'll try easy outs first but if not I'll weld a nut to them and use an impact driver.


The bike was so much cheaper than the rest and it's only done 10000 miles but then I learnt why it was so cheap. Shortly after the Exhausts started blowing, where the pipes attach to the engine it's just rusted so badly. Realised he had just covered it all in crap all the way down the pipes to patch up the holes. I decided to check the service history and it's perfect but realised it had been left out for over a year in the rain.
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Johnser
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 17 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus, those look like they've been left at the bottom of the sea. Normally, I'd vote for welding bits on to it but I think you'll struggle to penetrate through the rust and get a decent weld on there.

going on the premise that you'll almost certainly be buying new studs (?) can you get in there with a cold chisel and just cut the whole lot off? stud and all?

getting the studs out with the pipes out of the way should be easier
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 17 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried an expensive russian hooker? Thinking
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 17 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

They probably look a lot worse than they are. If they truly are rusted solid and the pipes are trashed I would start by removing the rad to make some room and cutting the pipes off at the flange, then the flanges in half to take the load off the nuts.
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tixylix
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PostPosted: 02:30 - 18 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried drilling into one of the bolts and then putting a bolt extractor in there and it didn't work. I don't get what the guy who owned it last did to it because it is like he couldn't get the nut all the way in so he glued it or something. No wonder why it was blowing because the pipe just broke off from a few movements back and forth. It is all so badly rusted and...........


I'm going to have to drill out the bolts and then rethread I guess?
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tixylix
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 19 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has defeated me and my Dremel which caught on fire trying to cut through the bolt and stopped working now lol.

Bolt extractors are a load of shit, they do fuck all but make everything worse. Trying to drill into bolt ruined about 4 drill bits lol. I've spent the past couple hours sawing the ruined end off and I've only like like 2cm of bolt left now. Heating the bolt up didn't loosen it, just caused lots of smoke from the boiling ACF50 lol.

Only option I have now is to take the engine off and drill the bolt out. I swear he welded that thing in.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 19 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have 2cm of bolt protruding put a nut on it, weld it on then turn it out with a spanner.
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Nick 50
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 19 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could try filing two straight edges and then using a Stilson..... worth a shot perhaps.

First thing first:

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs063.snc3/13042_201458843752_500933752_3202446_5244036_n.jpg

Get as much of the crap of it as possible.
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tixylix
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 19 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
If you have 2cm of bolt protruding put a nut on it, weld it on then turn it out with a spanner.


I think I'm going to weld something long to it to give me leverage
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 19 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good idea, then when the long thing you weld to it has turned round and hit something on the frame or engine you can cut it off and weld it on again.

Weld a nut to it and use a 6-sided socket and long bar for leverage.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 19 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

tixylix wrote:
It has defeated me and my Dremel which caught on fire trying to cut through the bolt and stopped working now lol.


I'm glad you're laughing, I feel less guilty about creasing up. Very Happy

Now may be the time to get medieval on its ass.

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tixylix
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 20 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z189/slannmage/20120220_093612.jpg

Took me ages to get to this point lol. Kept trying everything but just kept losing more length on the bolt. So I cut it off again to flatten it So I could drill through it but it's costing too much money in tools to try.

Went to a garage a few villages away from me and they said 18 per bolt which I didn't think was too bad considering I've spent more in tools. My Mechanic mate came round this morning to give me advice and said to to go there because they're so stuck in that I'll never get them out. So they're just going to drill them out and rethread it.
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