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Stalls when put in first gear

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guile
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 17 Apr 2012    Post subject: Stalls when put in first gear Reply with quote

When I initially start up the bike and drop from neutral to first, the engine stalls pretty much every time.

It only happens once and then I can drop down to first with no problems during a ride.

I am planning to alter the clutch cable tightness tomorrow to see if that helps but I think the tightness is fine because I can pull in the clutch when stopped at traffic lights and it won't stall.

I have also tried pumping the clutch a bit before dropping gear to try to get the plates unstuck (if that's what is causing it).

Any other ideas and also a good explanation of what is happening?
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JackDaniels
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 17 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

My friend used to have this problem, when he used to do cold starts hed fire his bike up then apply the back brake, hed then rev the engine grab the clutch and put it into gear, it would make a big clunk but then be fine for the rest of the day.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 17 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The clutch is sticking overnight, do you have the correct oil in it?
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MikeyBrown
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 17 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on the age of the bike, could a faulty side stand cutout switch be to blame?

I know on my Fazer, if the side stand is down and I go to put it into 1st gear from neutral, the engine will cut out. This is the switch working correctly.

If it developed a fault it either wouldn't cut the engine, or it would sense that the stand was down, even if it wasn't.

The only other thing I can think, is what happened to my friend on his Suzuki GZ125. The switch worked fine, but the spring that tensions the side stand and holds it in the 'up' position wasn't quite strong enough anymore, so the stand wouldn't release the switch all the way, which meant that it caused the bike to stall on pretty much every rideout and pretty much all the time.
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cloric_tzr
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 17 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you by any chance putting it in first whilst its on the side stand or stand down? then taking it off and restarting it? seems strange i know
some bikes have a cut out if it goes into gear whislt stand deployed hence your problem,
if not it sticking a little obviously but i would expect a big judder and you havent described that.
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cloric_tzr
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 17 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike brown you bollocking bastard beating me to it Laughing
your comment wassnt there when i startewd mine lol
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i dumped my girlfriend the other day! she wouldnt act out one of my fantasy's. all i wanted her to do was come home from work, catch me fucking her sister and join in!!! miserable bitch!
My wifes so ugly, the only thing that goes down on her
Is the internet connection.
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guile
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PostPosted: 00:12 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bike is a year old so I havn't touched the clutch oil.

A few people have suggested revs which I havn't tried yet. I'm curious as to how that would help.

cloric_tzr wrote:
are you by any chance putting it in first whilst its on the side stand or stand down?


I am not that dumb Very Happy

How can I check the stand switch isn't to blame? I will have a closer look at it tomorrow.
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Casper
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PostPosted: 00:15 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same problem. It turnd out to be side stand switch. Well i say that but its the rubber boot that covers it. The rubber is old and hard so not letting the plunger come out proper. Ill buy another one day but its been like this for over a year so i doubt it. I just got into the habbit of pulling it out by hand in the morning.

At the end of the day either park it on the centre stand or diconect the switch from the frame and leave it hanging until next morning and if your bike starts fine then you know what the problem is.
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cloric_tzr
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing needed to ask,

prehaps you should check the gear box oil, if you havent done anything with it since the manufacturer filled it, what bike is it?
give us a better idea of what we are dealing with here, is there any clunk or 'learch when selecting 1st for the first time?
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i dumped my girlfriend the other day! she wouldnt act out one of my fantasy's. all i wanted her to do was come home from work, catch me fucking her sister and join in!!! miserable bitch!
My wifes so ugly, the only thing that goes down on her
Is the internet connection.
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MikeyBrown
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloric_tzr wrote:
mike brown you bollocking bastard beating me to it Laughing
your comment wassnt there when i startewd mine lol


Thumbs Up sorry mate ahahahaha but I guess that great minds think alike Wink
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guile
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PostPosted: 00:22 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloric_tzr wrote:
what bike is it?
give us a better idea of what we are dealing with here, is there any clunk or 'learch when selecting 1st for the first time?


The bike is in my sig.

I get what I would describe a a typical stall (little cough and bump forward).

If it's a faulty stand switch, why would it let me ride away when restarting the bike?

I will check the oil too although I can't see anything about it in the manual Embarassed
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MikeyBrown
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

guile wrote:
cloric_tzr wrote:
what bike is it?
give us a better idea of what we are dealing with here, is there any clunk or 'learch when selecting 1st for the first time?


If it's a faulty stand switch, why would it let me ride away when restarting the bike?


You know what mate, I'm not sure. We could never figure this out on my friends GZ125 either :/ it'd let him restart the bike and ride fine and then it'd start playing up again. It'd then play up if he left it and went to start it. No idea why to be honest
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cloric_tzr
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PostPosted: 00:58 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

its a wet clutch, meaning its lubricated with gearbox oil, there should be a window on the side near the bottom off the gearbox casing (check near your gear lever) or on the other side at the same height, or look for a cap near there take it out it may have a dipstik onit to indicate oil level, sounds to me like the plates are sticking as someone has already said may be an idea to change the gearbox oil completly rather than top up as you dont know what oil the manufacturer uses (rule of thumb never mix difrent brand fluids of any type) Thumbs Up safest way
10 min job there will be a sump bolt on the bottom of the gear box dont forget let the bike drain standing upright then lean it one way for 5 mins then the other for another for 5 makes sure all old oil out, dont forget to put the sump bolt back in before toping up Embarassed done that before mess ewverywere.
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i dumped my girlfriend the other day! she wouldnt act out one of my fantasy's. all i wanted her to do was come home from work, catch me fucking her sister and join in!!! miserable bitch!
My wifes so ugly, the only thing that goes down on her
Is the internet connection.
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cloric_tzr
Brolly Dolly



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PostPosted: 01:00 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yh check your engine oil too sounds like youve used it for a year without checking anything Thumbs Up dont want to run out and seize it now do you?
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i dumped my girlfriend the other day! she wouldnt act out one of my fantasy's. all i wanted her to do was come home from work, catch me fucking her sister and join in!!! miserable bitch!
My wifes so ugly, the only thing that goes down on her
Is the internet connection.
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Budgetboy
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PostPosted: 09:39 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faulty sidestand switch as others have said.

try riding off with you sat on the bike and side stand UP.

If you have a multimeter you can test the switch. Thumbs Up
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bodger
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming the clutch is adjusted correctly with the right ammount of free play, stalling when selecting first gear from cold is usually a case of sticking clutch plates. This invariably happens with my YamahaXJ600. It can usually be solved by pulling the clutch in and giving the engine a couple of quick blips of the throttle This usually frees the plate before trying to select first.
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Pie-Roe
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

why would a faulty side stand switch cause only one stall, that makes little to no sense.

OP push your bike 3 ft with the engine off, in gear, clutch in and report back. If it's hard initially and then fine, it's as Ariel says.
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MikeyBrown
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyroforlife wrote:
why would a faulty side stand switch cause only one stall, that makes little to no sense.

OP push your bike 3 ft with the engine off, in gear, clutch in and report back. If it's hard initially and then fine, it's as Ariel says.


It was just my two pennies worth based on what my friends bike had when the switch was at fault there.

Admittedly, not the actual switch that was broken, but the stand wasn't retracting properly which made the switch 'not work'. We started by swapping the switch and nothing changed...then we did a little more digging with the stand position, as we figured out it was stand related and figured out what the actual fault was Wink
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Casper
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 18 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyroforlife wrote:
why would a faulty side stand switch cause only one stall, that makes little to no sense.


Depends. If like my switch its the rubber boot that is at fault. If i kick up the sidestand the plundger does not fully come out. It will if i pull it or wiggle the bike.
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RPM
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 19 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

When my old kmx did this, it was definitely due to sticking clutch plates.

It was always noticeable first thing in the morning or if it was parked anywhere for several hours.

I was able to rule out the sidestand switch......it didn't have one Thumbs Up

All the best
Mike
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 19 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bodger wrote:
Assuming the clutch is adjusted correctly with the right ammount of free play, stalling when selecting first gear from cold is usually a case of sticking clutch plates. This invariably happens with my YamahaXJ600. It can usually be solved by pulling the clutch in and giving the engine a couple of quick blips of the throttle This usually frees the plate before trying to select first.


I agree with this, particularly as the OP says it lurches forward.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 20 Apr 2012    Post subject: clutch plates Reply with quote

Karma hi dude,

yeap, sounds like sticky clutch plates.

you say you have not check/changed g/box oil, so nows the time i think.

some pics for the site would be good etc.

if you have centre stand, then start on this and leave to warm up a bit, holding the clutch in and blipping the throttle is good also, to free off the plates.

not too much g/box oil in there?? of the correct grade??
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MikeyBrown
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 20 Apr 2012    Post subject: Re: clutch plates Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
yeap, sounds like sticky clutch plates.

you say you have not check/changed g/box oil, so nows the time i think.

some pics for the site would be good etc.

if you have centre stand, then start on this and leave to warm up a bit, holding the clutch in and blipping the throttle is good also, to free off the plates.

not too much g/box oil in there?? of the correct grade??


Worth checking oil level and to be honest, change it whilst you're there anyway, even if thast is not the problem.

Also, does this bike use seperate gear oil? I always thought these Derbi's were 4-strokes and the engine oil also does the clutch and gearbox?
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timmy222
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 20 Apr 2012    Post subject: Side stand Reply with quote

Switch is the cause.
Had one done it , fixed it, the chaps are bang on the problem.
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guile
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 21 Apr 2012    Post subject: Re: clutch plates Reply with quote

A few people suggested revving before dropping the gear and that worked the one and only time I have tried it so far. The other time that it didn't stall was when I accidently left it parked in 1st gear.

So I think we can rule out the stand switch as it looks like sticking clutch plates?

The bike is still under warranty. Would they be able to fix this or could it just be due to bad design?

MikeyBrown wrote:
Also, does this bike use seperate gear oil?


Not that I am aware of. I did have to take out some of the engine oil but that looks like the only oil input on the bike and the manual does not refer to it. I was confused when people started mentioning gear oil.

bikenut wrote:
not too much g/box oil in there?? of the correct grade??


Well the bike had too much oil in it when I bought it, so I took some out so it had the correct amount. Do you think that excess oil could still be causing problems even though the current amount is correct?

I don't know whether this is relevant but when I tried to paddle the bike out of the parking space when I left it in first gear (ignition on, engine off) the back wheel locked (or felt like it) so I couldn't move it. Not sure if this is normal or not.


Last edited by guile on 23:18 - 21 Apr 2012; edited 1 time in total
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