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CG 125 points engine, with a CDI loom?

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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: CG 125 points engine, with a CDI loom? Reply with quote

Hi there, sorry for jumping straight in with my first post with a question, I have recently bought a new engine for my CG 125 Rep, its an original honda points engine and it seems to fit in OK, it fires up but bangs and coughs, and wont idle i havent had a big look at it but i kinda took a guess with the flywheel wires, erm I can upload pics tomorrow, but i just really wish it would work, since its my daily commute, any help will be appreciated, thanks!

Dan
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you running the bike of its original points ignition system? if so you will have a problem with the original points engine as it has a mechanical advance and retard built into the engine behind the points plate, this will not work with a cdi loom as the ecu has a built in electronic advance and retard that requires a static signal from the engine not a variable one which it is getting.
Also to the best of my knowledge some of the earlier points engines were only 6 volt and I assume your later model was 12 volts so worth checking the year of the engine as well.
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 17 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

the year of the engine is 1996, 12v points engine, so what you are saying is i wouldnt be able to run it on the existing loom? I beileved i could just get a new regulator + coil?
thanks for the reply by the way
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 17 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

DMCpro wrote:
the year of the engine is 1996, 12v points engine, so what you are saying is i wouldnt be able to run it on the existing loom? I beileved i could just get a new regulator + coil?
thanks for the reply by the way


Having never seen your original engine its hard to say but you might be able to fit the bottom coils and ignitor pickup from the original engine into the older points engine thus reusing and retaining the original electrics and loom, as it stands now you are trying to run an engine with both mechanical and electronic advance and retard which will not work.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 17 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

96' is a cdi engine

before 95' and its points
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 17 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, sorry - it was '95 engine, definitly points. it has a spark though, and it will fire up for around a secound but bang and pop so i dont wanna damage it further
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 17 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

replace the condensor on the coil and check the points are at the correct adjustment
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 17 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know what a condenser is, and i dont know where the points are Razz, its defintly a CDI loom (CDI regulator +coil)so thats what i was worried about, thanks
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 17 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

points behind the flywheel
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 01:19 - 18 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

i tried to remove the flywheel by taking off the centre nut but it didnt seem to come off - also its not wired correctly i was kinda guessing when i did it as im not the best with electrics Wink
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startright
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PostPosted: 01:25 - 18 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure you are using the coil from the points bike.
The HT coil from a CDI bike has too low a resistance and will melt!
If you understand using a meter, the CDI coil has a resistance on the primary of about 0.5 ohms. The points one is about 10 times that... 4 to 5 ohms, which means it passes 1/10 the current and therefore doesn't overheat.
At least with a points engine you don't have to worry about destroying a CDI.
Well done for having a go, we need more real motorcyclists out there.
Graham @ Startrights
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 18 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, im using the coil from the cdi engine, i dont actually have the points coil, is that what i need to buy for the bike to run? i dont think ive wired correctly either, i just guessed like i do with most things, normally im right but i dont think so this time, ive tried looking at the wiring diagram but it just looks like a load of spagetti to me, ive never been great with electrics - just the basics there... like i said it will spark, but i know somethings not right, its not running it will fire up and die straight away.

thanks
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 18 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

i honestly don't have a clue what your on about,but it won't run at all if you havnt connected the wires properly.

get some pics of the engine and the wiring.
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 18 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, thanks so much for the help

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Do you need any more pictures? i just tried to roughly wire it, it got a spark, but a weak one.

Thanks
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 19 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump, desperate to get this running please help =p
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 19 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

loom is cdi

if the engine has points then it simply won't work with the cdi loom

there should be just 2 coils in the flywheel if the engine is a cdi one,if there's anything else its a points engine and you'll need a points loom

if its a cdi engine,get a wiring diagram for the cg and connect together the colour wires it says.
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 20 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
loom is cdi

if the engine has points then it simply won't work with the cdi loom

there should be just 2 coils in the flywheel if the engine is a cdi one,if there's anything else its a points engine and you'll need a points loom

if its a cdi engine,get a wiring diagram for the cg and connect together the colour wires it says.


sorry to ask again, but i need the whole loom or just the coil?
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 20 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

whole loom and coil depending on what engine is in.
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greetingsfrom...
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 20 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
whole loom and coil depending on what engine is in.


Assuming the rest of your electrics are working, you dont need a full loom just to switch the ignition circuit from cdi to points.

I'm assuming your bike runs a 12 volt electrical circuit, if this is the case buy a 12 volt points ignition coil from a breaker or one of those universal 12v points coils off ebay, run a live feed from the battery to a switch and then to the coil, wire the feed from the points to the negative side directly, buy a 12 volt condenser and fit (I cant remember if points cg125's ever switched from 6 volt to 12 and condensers are both cheap and a consumable) and thats your ignition circuit.

Either use a hidden flick switch or a universal key switch (given the rate 125's get pinched best to use a key switch and hide it)

Someone more knowledgeable on these wee beastes might be able to tell you if the timing marks changed between the cdi and points back plates
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 20 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

too much hard work for not much gains.

get the correct loom for the engine and work from there.
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greetingsfrom...
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 21 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
too much hard work for not much gains.

get the correct loom for the engine and work from there.


In no way am I saying what I said is 'better' than you but stringing a few wires between the battery and a number of components is not hard work in any way, I would estimate probably less work than tracking down a loom which will work with the engine, then having to replace the ignition switch and the coil as well
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 21 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

if that way was easier and worked,everyone would have done it.
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PaulFzs
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 21 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
if that way was easier and worked,everyone would have done it.



This +1
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 21 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

it could be done if you can wire in correctly the correct wire into the coil from the flywheel/points assembly.

EDIT: Doing the mod from points to cdi on a bike loom that is made for point igntion would mean a new loom as that's harder.

It can be done, only if you know how and are good with electrics

I could go through this with you but it appears alot of the wiring is butchered here and is going to be a pain to sort out


Last edited by cb1rocket on 23:16 - 21 Jul 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 21 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=3260814#3260814

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CG-125-1991-Wiring-Loom-/250925144829?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3a6c4ddafd

then get the correct reg/rec and the coil
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