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£60 fines and CCTV crackdown on drivers who stop in bike box

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CyrilSwan
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: £60 fines and CCTV crackdown on drivers who stop in bike box Reply with quote

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-and-cctv-crackdown-on-drivers-who-stop-in-bike-boxes-at-lights-8635559.html

Drivers who stop in bicycle boxes at traffic lights face fines of £60 and three penalty points on their licences as City Hall plans a crackdown.

Boris Johnson’s cycling czar Andrew Gilligan wants Transport for London to enforce “advance stop lines” with CCTV cameras in a similar way to bus lanes.

He believes this will help to protect cyclists by guaranteeing them a head-start on other traffic and will indicate to drivers the need to show cyclists greater “respect”.

Mr Gilligan said TfL was “pretty close” to securing a change in the law to decriminalise the offences — meaning it could take responsibility from the Met for enforcement. The purpose of ASLs and mandatory lanes is to give cyclists protected space,” Mr Gilligan told the Standard.

“We know how many cars go into advance stop boxes — probably more than 50 per cent of the time. Maybe they don’t known they are meant to stay out of them.

“At present, you have to have a police officer standing at the junction or in a police car. What we can do is stick a camera up and do automatic enforcement. That will sort out the problem.”

The plan to enforce bike lanes — with fines of £30 for drivers entering them — and ASLs is at the top of a list of TfL’s “legislative wants” that would remove often obscure rules that Mr Gilligan believes prevent TfL from making roads safer for cyclists. TfL is to ask the Department for Transport to pass a “commencement order” to allow it to penalise drivers who breach ASLs and mandatory cycle lanes, which are marked with a solid white border.

But this could also turn into a huge moneyspinner for TfL. It already issues about 20,000 fines a year to motorists who drive in bus lanes, and 140,000 a year for “moving traffic offences” such as stopping in yellow boxes in the centre of junctions.

Mr Gilligan, who denied reports that his £913 million cycling budget was at risk from expected cuts in TfL’s government grant, said: “We think if we enforce mandatory cycle lanes and ASLs, there will be much more compliance. Compliance with bus lanes has gone up dramatically.

“People avoid them even when they don’t have to. We want to do exactly the same [with cycle lanes].”

Cycling campaigner Jenny Jones, a Green member of the London Assembly, said: “Rather than posting a police officer at every traffic light, it would seem sensible to treat ASLs in the same way as we treat yellow boxes or bus lanes, so that we can use cameras to enforce this safety measure.”

Lawyer Kevin O’Sulivan, who represents cyclists injured in road collisions, said: “If this fining of motorists for breaching ASLs and cycle lanes goes ahead, it will mean that motorists are thinking about the presence of cyclists generally, which will be another step forward for cycle safety.”
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more reason for me to continue my long-standing boycott of Greater London in its entirety.

Seriously, I have two friends who went to that London to find work and next time I saw them had (volountarily) had their todgers cut off.

The whole place is fucked up and the sooner it's done away with, the better.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the punishment (if caught) of riding without a numberplate again?

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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing @ London.
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wotsthestory
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyclists routinely do NOT use them in London. If they haven't bimbled halfway into the junction before the lights have changed, then most likely they have already ridden across at red anyway.

Cars should never enter, even before I became indoctrinated to the way of the Motorcyclist, being a previous hater (yes really), I would never use bus lanes or cycle safe zones (or whatever they are calling them now). My wife was out in London with a heavily pregnant colleague and has had to avoid cycles and vans at CROSSINGS.
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esullivan
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember being confused by this when I first started commuting in London -- everyone mostly ignores the box and treats it as the normal stop line. Motorcycles violate this far more often than cars. Cyclists either run the red light (if clear) or wait part way into the junction.

I don't understand the hostility to cyclists. About the only thing more dangerous than commuting in London on a motorcycle is commuting in London on a bicycle. Let them have that box!
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

They would make more money from fining the cyclists £60 a time for running the lights than they would ticketing drivers who encroach the ASL.
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wotsthestory
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

esullivan wrote:
I don't understand the hostility to cyclists. About the only thing more dangerous than commuting in London on a motorcycle is commuting in London on a bicycle. Let them have that box!
You have already answered this and echoes what I have said above, cyclists don't use them, they are worse than drivers/riders because they are not culpable. That's the hostility.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

esullivan wrote:

I don't understand the hostility to cyclists. About the only thing more dangerous than commuting in London on a motorcycle is commuting in London on a bicycle. Let them have that box!


1) Go on youtube.
2)Look at some London based cycle vlogs.
3) RAAAAGGGGGEEE!!!
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treeno
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not good for filtering. Sad
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Benno
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's stupid. Cyclists are slow - if they move to the front they will hold up huge amounts of traffic as they take off from the green light (assuming they don't just jump the red Rolling Eyes).

Surely it would be better to just keep them to the side of the road or, bright idea, build better cycleways like they have in Berlin?

Also, hooray for more big brother as yet more cameras are installed with the express purpose of punishing us for minor misdemeanours. Society is becoming more and more rigid and streamlined, go with the flow, do what others do, say what others say and wear what others wear or face the consequences of being different!
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Andrew Gilligan wants to turn it in to a traffic light Grand Prix, then he should also make it law that taking out large volumes of cyclists in a fashion too dissimilar to this is acceptable.

Miserable prick.

"lets make a law to protect the hoards of rampaging bastards who do anything BUT follow the law"


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treeno
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benno wrote:
That's stupid. Cyclists are slow - if they move to the front they will hold up huge amounts of traffic as they take off from the green light (assuming they don't just jump the red Rolling Eyes).

Surely it would be better to just keep them to the side of the road or, bright idea, build better cycleways like they have in Berlin?

Also, hooray for more big brother as yet more cameras are installed with the express purpose of punishing us for minor misdemeanours. Society is becoming more and more rigid and streamlined, go with the flow, do what others do, say what others say and wear what others wear or face the consequences of being different!


Bit of a generalisation. When I cycle I am far quicker to set off from the lights than most cars and motorbikes unless they are eager to go. Being in the gutter next to cars is a danger for cyclists so I do think the boxes are necessary. It allows them to bunch up at the front before spreading out along the cycle lane when traffic gets moving again. Although there needs to be a crackdown on red light breakers, there are far too many.
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving traffic 'violations' are massive, massive sources of easy cash for London councils and TfL. My only surprise is that the fines are proposed to be £60 and not the £130 they attempt to extort for buslane and parking 'violations' and other such trivial matters.

You might well laugh at London for now, but I bet the greedy cash hungry council where YOU live can't wait to unleash their own plethora of additional CCTV cameras to catch moving traffic 'violations' in your area.
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danceanthems
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a life long resident of our fine capital city I can honestly say that even after 21 years of driving/riding around it is more of a nightmare now than it ever has been. Without wanting to sound like an old fucker - when I was a boy it was quite simple : keep up & don't get knocked off. However with the advent of the CC that suddenly spawned 10,000,000 scooter riders and the huge number of lunatic cyclists, the roads being a wash with paint for bus lanes, cycle lanes, multiple stop lines, boxes, Olympic lanes, you name it - what a horror... hate it all.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

F​uck's sake, just let them ride through the bloody reds, give them absolute priority at all junctions, and be done with it.
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Acemastr
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can't stop in these? Mr. Green
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illuminateTHE...
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the very same nazi's using pedal power will not even stop for the red lights when they come on.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

danceanthems wrote:
As a life long resident of our fine capital city I can honestly say that even after 21 years of driving/riding around it is more of a nightmare now than it ever has been. Without wanting to sound like an old fucker - when I was a boy it was quite simple : keep up & don't get knocked off. However with the advent of the CC that suddenly spawned 10,000,000 scooter riders and the huge number of lunatic cyclists, the roads being a wash with paint for bus lanes, cycle lanes, multiple stop lines, boxes, Olympic lanes, you name it - what a horror... hate it all.


I find it different. Since bikes were allowed in the bus lanes I've found it very much easier and safer to get about the city.
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Benno
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

treeno wrote:
Benno wrote:
That's stupid. Cyclists are slow - if they move to the front they will hold up huge amounts of traffic as they take off from the green light (assuming they don't just jump the red Rolling Eyes).

Surely it would be better to just keep them to the side of the road or, bright idea, build better cycleways like they have in Berlin?

Also, hooray for more big brother as yet more cameras are installed with the express purpose of punishing us for minor misdemeanours. Society is becoming more and more rigid and streamlined, go with the flow, do what others do, say what others say and wear what others wear or face the consequences of being different!


Bit of a generalisation. When I cycle I am far quicker to set off from the lights than most cars and motorbikes unless they are eager to go. Being in the gutter next to cars is a danger for cyclists so I do think the boxes are necessary. It allows them to bunch up at the front before spreading out along the cycle lane when traffic gets moving again. Although there needs to be a crackdown on red light breakers, there are far too many.


Consider me somewhat enlightened regarding cyclists. I have never driven in London.
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treeno
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 30 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benno wrote:
Consider me somewhat enlightened regarding cyclists. I have never driven in London.


Don't worry, you're not missing much Mr. Green. Although I do relish the challenge of a good filter now and again.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 04:59 - 30 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
One more reason for me to continue my long-standing boycott of Greater London in its entirety.

Seriously, I have two friends who went to that London to find work and next time I saw them had (volountarily) had their todgers cut off.

The whole place is fucked up and the sooner it's done away with, the better.


I hate using a bike/car in Lahndahn.
Those who do deserve this tax heaped heavily upon them.

The most hassle you get in London is from total fackwits on bikes pushing through trafic. It would be interesting to know who many accidents bikes are involved in and how it translates to national insurance premiums. I don't exactly hang about when skooting through town on the bike but it boggles the mind to think how some of those Kunts can get insurance the way they ride... They must think they're Steve McQueen. Smile
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 30 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it quite ridiculous that they even imagine that placing bicycles in a line across the front of traffic which is that much faster away than the average cyclist isn't going to cause more problems and possibly conflicts
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esullivan
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 30 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggs Benedict wrote:
I find it quite ridiculous that they even imagine that placing bicycles in a line across the front of traffic which is that much faster away than the average cyclist isn't going to cause more problems and possibly conflicts


But yet it works. Every day. The fact that cars and motorcycles are pulling into the cycle-only section isn't stopping cyclists from positioning themselves in front.

I agree that there should be a crackdown on cyclists flouting road rules. (I saw a cyclists get ticketed a couple of weeks ago for blasting through a crowd of people on a zebra crossing, but that was only because the lead car waiting happened to be the police.)

I agree that London should have proper cycle lanes like many modern cities. I also agree that cyclists are often their own worst enemies. (One kicked my motorcycle yesterday because I had to slow down to squeeze passed two 4x4s.)

But I also know from first-hand experience that it is really, really dangerous and difficult to ride a bicycle in London and they need all the help they can get. As we know, getting to the front of the queue does increase safety. That's why we do it. It pisses me off to see arseholes blocking the cycle section with their land rovers. I think they should be fined.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 30 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Treating London as a single amorphous blob doesn't really work here. There are some areas where there are lots of cyclists and they really need that green box. There are other areas where the traffic is nose to tail between traffic lights, and a car driver can make good use of that green box to crawl forward, and let the car behind crawl out of the box junction.

The temperament of the road users is also a factor. Often the drivers and cyclists in an area display similar levels of agression - go up to the City and the drivers and cyclists are all aggressive wankers. Head down to the south west and you may even get let out of a side road. Go to Brixton or Streatham and you'll be lucky if some of them know which side of the road to be on.

More cameras will not improve the quality of driving or get the traffic moving any faster. It will just mean even more selfish driving to avoid getting caught by a camera rolling over a white line, and even more people getting worked up that the person in front won't move up a couple of feet and make a gap.
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