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Shell Advance SX4 20W-50

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koolio
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PostPosted: 03:03 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Shell Advance SX4 20W-50 Reply with quote
I pretty sure this was a common motorcycle mineral oil in garages etc. anyone have any idea where I can buy it?

Have been looking online with little luck. I can find other weights but not that one.

Any pointers would be appreciated.
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Az
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PostPosted: 04:17 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
According to this site the 10w40 has been discontinued, maybe the whole Shell SX4 line has been discontinued?

Edit: The only weight I found (15w20) for Shell SX4 was being sold by a company that specialises in oil and probably has old stock still lying around.
I still think the line is most likely discontinued, especially as shell don't list it on their own site anymore under the motorcycle oils they provide.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you want a basic 20W50 mineral oil, just buy a basic 20W50 mineral oil. No point looking for a specific manufacturer for a very simple oil.
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koolio
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
If you want a basic 20W50 mineral oil, just buy a basic 20W50 mineral oil. No point looking for a specific manufacturer for a very simple oil.


Well it's considered one of the best mineral oils out there.

It's an XS650
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P.
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any old oil then... just go grab your basic 20w40 that Yamaha actually recommend.

Nothing wrong with using no brand oil.
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koolio
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Any old oil then... just go grab your basic 20w40 that Yamaha actually recommend.


20w40 costs a bomb. No one with an xs650 uses it.

Quote:
Shell SX4 line has been discontinued?


It's only discontinued on Opie oils, I can still order loads of it, but can only seem to get it in 15w40 would prefer 20w50 which is what most xs650 people are using. Was thinking it might be sold locally somewhere. Many oils can't be bought online.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
_Iain_ wrote:
You do realise getting the grade right is significantly more important than the brand of oil if you're worried about engine lifespan? Laughing


What about how the aesthetics of the container design look on the garage/bedroom floor though? Rolling Eyes

Very Happy
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garth
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Asda sell cheap 20/50.

Mineral oil is mineral oil.
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
koolio wrote:


20w40 costs a bomb. No one with an xs650 uses it.


15w40 weight oil is the same weight oil once your bike is at operating temperature, it is slightly thinner than 20w40 only until it reaches operating temperature.

15w40 is a better match if you don't want to pay for 20w40.

Halfords are selling 15w40 semi-synth for £10 for 4 litres.
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koolio
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Asda sell cheap 20/50.

Mineral oil is mineral oil.


Thats car oil and not suitable for the clutch.

It's also still more expensive than the Shell Advance 15W-40 Mineral oil... which is 12 litres for £40, they also make a 20W-50 oil but I just need to find out where I can buy it.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
koolio wrote:
Quote:
Asda sell cheap 20/50.

Mineral oil is mineral oil.


Thats car oil and not suitable for the clutch.

It's also still more expensive than the Shell Advance 15W-40 Mineral oil... which is 12 litres for £40, they also make a 20W-50 oil but I just need to find out where I can buy it.



FFS don't mention car oil and motorbike in the same thread. Shocked

It does more harm to the forum than it does to a clutch. Very Happy
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koolio
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PostPosted: 00:07 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
koolio wrote:


Thats car oil and not suitable for the clutch.

It's also still more expensive than the Shell Advance 15W-40 Mineral oil... which is 12 litres for £40, they also make a 20W-50 oil but I just need to find out where I can buy it.



FFS don't mention car oil and motorbike in the same thread. Shocked

It does more harm to the forum than it does to a clutch. Very Happy


Just spent a few hours cleaning my clutch plates because PO had put car oil in it and the clutch wouldn't disengage..

I have met a few idiots who tell me on old bikes you just put in regular car oil, forgetting that those old bikes had separate clutch and gear boxes and that most mid-60s upwards bikes have unit construction.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
koolio wrote:
Just spent a few hours cleaning my clutch plates because PO had put car oil in it and the clutch wouldn't disengage..

I have met a few idiots who tell me on old bikes you just put in regular car oil, forgetting that those old bikes had separate clutch and gear boxes.


Do you mean Pre-Unit bikes? Form before the 60s. Not many around now.

Contamination on clutch plates (some deny it as being a problem) can't be 'cleaned' off. The 'modifiers' in car oil bond to the lining. Normally slippage caused by this would require replacing with new linings. It's a cheap but certain cure.
I'd normally only pull a clutch apart with a mind to replacing linings. (Or cause some idiot left a plate out Embarassed )
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koolio
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Contamination on clutch plates (some deny it as being a problem) can't be 'cleaned' off. The 'modifiers' in car oil bond to the lining. Normally slippage caused by this would require replacing with new linings. It's a cheap but certain cure.
I'd normally only pull a clutch apart with a mind to replacing linings. (Or cause some idiot left a plate out Embarassed )


I can't say on modern bikes because I don't know.

But I have so far wiped down with a rag the clutch plates on a 1975 CB500t and a 1972 XS650, replaced with the proper motorcycle oil and the clutch problem is cured immediately.

On XS650 forums they say to just pour out the crap car oil and put in proper motorcycle oil, ride around a bit and eventually it is cured, I just didn't want to wait for that.

Anyway let me rephrase, quite simply where can I find lots of cheap motorcycle mineral oil in 20w50 and preferably Shell Advance SX4? (and with a JASO rating)

Last edited by koolio on 00:37 - 03 Jan 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
koolio wrote:

I have met a few idiots who tell me on old bikes you just put in regular car oil, forgetting that those old bikes had separate clutch and gear boxes and that most mid-60s upwards bikes have unit construction.


Would these be the unit construction bikes that were made before anybody bothered to try and flog motorcycle specific oils?

All the best

Keith
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koolio
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
koolio wrote:

I have met a few idiots who tell me on old bikes you just put in regular car oil, forgetting that those old bikes had separate clutch and gear boxes and that most mid-60s upwards bikes have unit construction.


Would these be the unit construction bikes that were made before anybody bothered to try and flog motorcycle specific oils?

All the best

Keith


Well clearly not, because I've had clutch issues with the two bikes I've bought where both PO's thought it would be clever to dump cheap car oil in and then call it a "service" rather than a bloody headache. Motorcycle specific oils have existed and been used from the 60s for a purpose, that and oil in those days did not have the "energy conserving" additives we do today, which is what causes the clutch issue in bikes.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
koolio wrote:

Well clearly not, because I've had clutch issues with the two bikes I've bought where both PO's thought it would be clever to dump cheap car oil in and then call it a "service" rather than a bloody headache. Motorcycle specific oils have existed and been used from the 60s for a purpose, that and oil in those days did not have the "energy conserving" additives we do today, which is what causes the clutch issue in bikes.


It is only pretty recently that makers have specified bike specific oils, with many older (1990s and older) bikes just listing an basic SE or the like spec oil, let alone a 1970s XS650.

While some modern car oils do have friction modifiers (many don't, certainly not with the low spec mineral oil that you will likely get if you buy 15W40), if these are going to cause a problem it is with the clutch slipping rather than failing to disengage. Clutches not disengaging can happen with wet clutches, irrespective of the oil used. Probably more likely from a bike just left standing for quite a while(had it with my TZR250 a few weeks ago which hadn't been used for a while - with a bike oil).

If you want to use a motorcycle specific oil then that is up to you, but I would very much doubt any of the problems you have experienced are related to the use of car oil.

All the best

Keith
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koolio
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:


While some modern car oils do have friction modifiers (many don't, certainly not with the low spec mineral oil that you will likely get if you buy 15W40), if these are going to cause a problem it is with the clutch slipping rather than failing to disengage. Clutches not disengaging can happen with wet clutches, irrespective of the oil used. Probably more likely from a bike just left standing for quite a while(had it with my TZR250 a few weeks ago which hadn't been used for a while - with a bike oil).

If you want to use a motorcycle specific oil then that is up to you, but I would very much doubt any of the problems you have experienced are related to the use of car oil.

All the best

Keith


Sorry but in my experience this is flat out wrong, on my XS650 the clutch was not disengaging because the cheap mineral car oil literally stuck the clutch plates together, this was the case cold and improved slightly hot.

Plenty of people having the same problems on XS650 when they decide to stick cheap mineral car oil in, cured by putting motorcycle specific oil in.

As far as I know you can get away with using diesel engine oil in an older bike.

Even cheap car oils today have friction modifiers owing to emission standards, EPA etc. etc. that were not around decades ago.
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P.
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 04 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
LOL.

Any frigging mineral gash oil will be fine.

I've never used anything and I mean ANYTHING but 10w40 Morrisons or Tesco oil in ANY of my bikes, the exception is when either my dad or a shop had done it.

Have I ever had an issue with a clutch, nope.

Just bang some asda basic in there and stop crying about some bike thats older than the dinosaurs. Laughing
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 00:26 - 04 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
koolio wrote:

Sorry but in my experience this is flat out wrong, on my XS650 the clutch was not disengaging because the cheap mineral car oil literally stuck the clutch plates together, this was the case cold and improved slightly hot.

Plenty of people having the same problems on XS650 when they decide to stick cheap mineral car oil in, cured by putting motorcycle specific oil in.

As far as I know you can get away with using diesel engine oil in an older bike.

Even cheap car oils today have friction modifiers owing to emission standards, EPA etc. etc. that were not around decades ago.


I very much doubt it is the use of car oil that causes an issue, and nothing new enough to care about EPA fuel economy rules (and hence the friction modifiers) is going to be using an ancient 15W40 spec oil (which are incredibly unlikely to be marked as energy conserving oils, which are the ones to avoid ), and a friction modifier is not going to stop a clutch disengaging (quite the opposite). Yamaha just give the option of a SAE 20W40 SE spec oil (ie, conventional low spec car oil).

Diesel oil is usable in many engines. Difference is just that diesel oils tend to have a higher detergent content to cope with the larger amount of rubbish generated in a diesel engine. One reason some use them as a flushing oil.

I have used car oil in many bikes with wet clutches and without having any issues. I have had a few bikes where the clutches have stuck when parked up for ages (early Aprilia AF1s would do it pretty much every morning, start engine, into gear and stall, then retry while holding the brakes and revving the engine and it would free off and then be fine afterwards), but none of these were one that had been using car oil.

Using the wrong weight engine oil is probably more likely to cause an issue (the Freccia we have specifies a 15W50 oil for the gearbox and using a 10W40 does tend to make it stick more when first started).

But ass said, feel free to use a bike oil. Not sure there really is a best as I doubt oil failure is common enough to be a major problem compared to most other factors. On an old bike with fairly wide clearances and a basic oil pump and filter system you are probably just best off changing the oil and filter regularly to remove the deposits floating in the oil.

All the best

Keith
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koolio
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 04 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I very much doubt it is the use of car oil that causes an issue, and nothing new enough to care about EPA fuel economy rules (and hence the friction modifiers) is going to be using an ancient 15W40 spec oil (which are incredibly unlikely to be marked as energy conserving oils, which are the ones to avoid ), and a friction modifier is not going to stop a clutch disengaging (quite the opposite). Yamaha just give the option of a SAE 20W40 SE spec oil (ie, conventional low spec car oil).


I've bought several old bikes, of the two which had brand new car oil they both suffered from nearly identical clutch problems, I repeat totally cured by cleaning the plates and putting the correct motorcycle oil in. Note that cleaning the plates and putting the same car oil back in produced the same problem!

Quote:

Diesel oil is usable in many engines. Difference is just that diesel oils tend to have a higher detergent content to cope with the larger amount of rubbish generated in a diesel engine. One reason some use them as a flushing oil.


Correct, but there are a host of owners using this stuff for years on XS650s, some people also race on diesel oil in the states.

Quote:
On an old bike with fairly wide clearances and a basic oil pump and filter system you are probably just best off changing the oil and filter regularly to remove the deposits floating in the oil.


Of course..

Quote:
LOL.

Any frigging mineral gash oil will be fine.

I've never used anything and I mean ANYTHING but 10w40 Morrisons or Tesco oil in ANY of my bikes, the exception is when either my dad or a shop had done it.

Have I ever had an issue with a clutch, nope.

Just bang some asda basic in there and stop crying about some bike thats older than the dinosaurs. Laughing


Incorrect in my experience.

You can at best get away with using car oil imo.
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P.
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 04 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well you must be pouring some seriously specific car oil in there.

Basic mineral 10w40 is not car specific, its 10w40 oil. I've never ever had a clutch issue on any of my bikes even when I did ~40,000 a year.
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