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Bendy
Mrs Sensible



Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
I am all for equality of opportunity, justice and so on.
But I'm also all for accepting that different people are different and taken as a whole, men and women are different to each other and do have different needs etc from life - I think some many drives towards 'equality' which don't recognise this end up being counter-productive for that reason.


This.

Don't tell me I can't do something because I'm a woman. Tell me I can't do it cos I'm too short or not strong enough or simply cos I'm not any good at it, but not because I'm a woman. And likewise in reverse, men get the shitty end of the stick in traditionally female-favoured roles. Special hand-holding and quotas doesn't do anyone any favours.

There was a time when women were shat on, and in many countries they still are. It would be nice if the militant 50%-ers put the effort into trying to help those women who really are oppressed, rather than worrying that there aren't quite enough female computer programmers or airline pilots in the world.
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Benno
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 May 2012
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bubbs wrote:
Just stumbled across a blog that covers the 'Male Privilage Checklist'..

To be honest I actually disagree with quite a few of them. What do you think?

The Male Privilege Checklist

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won’t think I got my job because of my sex – even though that might be true. (More).

3. If I am never promoted, it’s not because of my sex.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. (More).

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I’ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I’m even marginally competent. (More).

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I’m selfish for not staying at home.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

15. When I ask to see “the person in charge,” odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters. (More).

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children’s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists were (and are) the default.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often. (More).

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

21. If I’m careless with my financial affairs it won’t be attributed to my sex.

22. If I’m careless with my driving it won’t be attributed to my sex.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a “slut,” nor is there any male counterpart to “slut-bashing.” (More).

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability. (More).

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women’s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman’s without tailoring. (More).

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time. (More).

28. If I buy a new car, chances are I’ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car. (More).

29. If I’m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called “crime” and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called “domestic violence” or “acquaintance rape,” and is seen as a special interest issue.)

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. “All men are created equal,” mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don’t change my name.

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we’ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks. (More).

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we’ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. (More). If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do. (More).

43. If I am heterosexual, it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover. (More).

44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to “smile.” (More: 1 2).

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment. (More.)

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.



I think most of them are utter bullshit but they're the type of thing that is easy to say but take a long time to disprove. Much like almost everything the Daily Mail reports.

Please don't fall for privilege checklists again.
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Mario_Kempes
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 13 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd imagine most right thinking people are feminists without feeling the need to actually say it out loud. I'd never describe myself as a feminist for the same reason I don't describe myself as an slavery abolishionist.

The empowerment of women is what lifts countries out of the dark ages. When a country can tap into the resource of approx 50% of it's population it is then that they start to pull themselves out of the shite.

Most countries where women are not empowered tend to be utter hellholes for the majority of the inhabitants. By empowering their female population they'd start to develop.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://i.imgur.com/8WbmOwN.jpg

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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
And lol at the eBay ads at the bottom of the page.
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krarkol
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been in places that have employed women on the basis they where eye candy. I bet equality is fairly balanced, except women complain louder about men so it seems like it isn't?
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Bubbs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 May 2009
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
krarkol wrote:
I've been in places that have employed women on the basis they where eye candy. I bet equality is fairly balanced, except women complain louder about men so it seems like it isn't?


So is that a positive thing because they get a job? Or is that a negative thing because they get a job but for the wrong reason?

If a bunch of women considered me eye candy and wanted to pay me £xx,000 per year I would'nt mind at all.
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Bubbs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 May 2009
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Throw in another £10k and they can play with my man boobs.
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krarkol
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bubbs wrote:
krarkol wrote:
I've been in places that have employed women on the basis they where eye candy. I bet equality is fairly balanced, except women complain louder about men so it seems like it isn't?


So is that a positive thing because they get a job? Or is that a negative thing because they get a job but for the wrong reason?

If a bunch of women considered me eye candy and wanted to pay me £xx,000 per year I would'nt mind at all.


Positive discrimination I'd say. I bet other factors came into play such as that before she started, it was all men in the workplace so it looks good to the whole mixed gender workplace brigade.

I wouldn't mind either being paid to be oggled at either, I'd probs use it to my advantage (Hi Mrs Boss, I'll wear a mankini at work for an extra £2 an hour Laughing) but this equal rights thing is trying to make the way men think a bit more suppressed in my opinion.

If a guy wolf whistles to a woman, it's sexual harassment in the work place. Other way around and the guy doesn't mind, even if the woman is some horrible heffer.

It's to cater to the lowest common denominator really. Some people find it offensive so it has to be enforced to cater for them.

Most women I've met couldn't give a shit and love the attention if anything...until you mention that they love the attention Laughing
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bubbs wrote:

So is that a positive thing because they get a job? Or is that a negative thing because they get a job but for the wrong reason?

If feminism were to be about men, this would be negative for men and a call for action.

I think there's also a big disparity in pay in other areas for sex as far as looks go - modelling and various more 'adult' media, where I think women can generally get a lot more.
Yet oddly enough you don't see the "all about equality" feminists campaigning to improve this. Nor do we see calls for affirmative action to get more men to be "dinner ladies" at schools (shock horror, though I'm sure their official name no longer includes such terrible sexist connotations!)
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krarkol
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Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it sexist when it is assumed that every man that works in a Primary school or works in childcare is a paedo?
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
Nor do we see calls for affirmative action to get more men to be "dinner ladies" at schools (shock horror, though I'm sure their official name no longer includes such terrible sexist connotations!)

Education Centre Nourishment Consultants.

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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I CBA to read the thread, but my opinion is there will never and should never be equality. People/sexes/races etc. are different. Any equality will be forced and wrong.
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smegballs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
I CBA to read the thread, but my opinion is there will never and should never be equality. People/sexes/races etc. are different. Any equality will be forced and wrong.


Equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are two different things.

I agree with you in respects to equality of outcome, people are varied and expecting/engineering the same outcome for everyone means you are pandering to the lowest common denominator - which isn't a great target to work with.
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Bendy
Mrs Sensible



Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
krarkol wrote:
Is it sexist when it is assumed that every man that works in a Primary school or works in childcare is a paedo?


Yes, very.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
krarkol wrote:
Is it sexist when it is assumed that every man that works in a Primary school or works in childcare is a paedo?


No not at all. It's a consequence of media shit that cause moral panics leading to witch hunts that drum paediatricians out of their homes.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Google says that in 2011, 1/4 of primary schools had no male teachers and that there are 48 male teachers are state nursery schools.

Paedogeddon has arrived. Rolling Eyes
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Benno
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Joined: 06 May 2012
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Google says that in 2011, 1/4 of primary schools had no male teachers and that there are 48 male teachers are state nursery schools.

Paedogeddon has arrived. Rolling Eyes


Female teachers have been proven to have a negative effect on boys' as they grow up and go through education. To do with not understanding an empathising with them enough, slight sexism that they may or may not conscious be aware of, etc. I really can't be arsed to look this up again and provide proof though. I'm not in the mood for fully fledged debate right now Rolling Eyes
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smegballs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bendy wrote:

Don't tell me I can't do something because I'm a woman. Tell me I can't do it cos I'm too short or not strong enough or simply cos I'm not any good at it, but not because I'm a woman. And likewise in reverse, men get the shitty end of the stick in traditionally female-favoured roles. Special hand-holding and quotas doesn't do anyone any favours.


I agree, I think there should be one standard, the standard needed to do the job properly, and anyone who makes the grade male/female gets in.

The difference in male/female physical standards in the forces (and I think fire brigade) is mind boggling to me. If the female standard is required to do the job, why would a male of the same standard get rejected? If the male standard is required to do the job, why are females of a lesser standard being accepted?

If you need to be able to life X kg to do the job and less than 5% of females can lift it, then that is just the the way things are. It is obviously a job not suited to the vast majority of females. Which of course isn't to say they small percentage of females who can do the lift can't do the job perfectly well.
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krarkol
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Speaking of paedomageddon, the paranoia around that Talking Angela app makes for some hilarious reading! Laughing

On topic, if I was an employer, I'd fuck off all the equality acts straight away. I'd be employing people that I believe are up to doing the job they are applying for.

If it's a fitty with big tits, that's just a bonus!
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krarkol
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Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
smegballs wrote:

I agree, I think there should be one standard, the standard needed to do the job properly, and anyone who makes the grade male/female gets in.

The difference in male/female physical standards in the forces (and I think fire brigade) is mind boggling to me. If the female standard is required to do the job, why would a male of the same standard get rejected? If the male standard is required to do the job, why are females of a lesser standard being accepted?

If you need to be able to life X kg to do the job and less than 5% of females can lift it, then that is just the the way things are. It is obviously a job not suited to the vast majority of females. Which of course isn't to say they small percentage of females who can do the lift can't do the job perfectly well.


Precisely, take the armed forces. Women seem to be allowed an extra 2 and a bit minutes to complete the 1.5 mile run.

If I applied and did it within the females time requirements, if I wasn't applying for a frontline job then surely I should be accepted in any job that a woman would be doing?
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dransy
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
why dont i get any women coming for interviews at my place wanting to work in the warehouse hand balling 40ft containers? Thinking Thinking
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krarkol
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Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
That just got me wondering Dransy, I wonder if a lot of it is down to them having their aspirations to high?

For example, they don't want to work in a factory as that's a mans job, so they apply for something a bit higher up the spectrum that they just don't have the experience or qualifications for. Then when they get rejected, they scream and shout saying it's because of their gender.

Also, I just realised my posts seem to be coming across as me targeting women. It's just down to the fact that they are the "victims" in this and I think someone needs to get down to the bottom of it...
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CaNsA
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
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smegballs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 11 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just love being a dude, they world is so great for me Very Happy

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