ISIS Airstrikes

[DrSnoosnoo]

So The Commons are voting on Airstrikes today to join in with the Yanks and the Frenchies.

What's your opinion on this? I'm split, which is rubbish I know. Providing what we're told about ISIS/ISIL/IS is true and they're a set of murderous nutbags I'm all for bombing the shit outa them then going in with the infantry and finishing off the wounded.

BUT

ISIS will use human shields from the planes, for definite. The second we're responsible for an innocent it'll be a drive for more idiotic youth to join them to fight against the west "who kill innocent muslims".

What do you think?
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[Itchy]

Numerous points:

Unless we are willing to occupy a country for 50+ years we should leave them completely alone.

Over time they will sort things out and find a balance of power of their own.

The half in half out approach does not really work as it leaves a power vacuum.

Case in point Japan, S Korea and Germany. These countries were occupied by the US military for 50 or so years, they are still to some extent under occupation. As a result a stable society came about from this occupation.

Look at China, they were left alone since 1949 and were isolated in 1955 when the USSR split with them. They made many mistakes, killed hundreds of millions of their own people. But after 35 years of mistakes they started changing things for the better living standards for many (but not all) increased.

Iran for the most part has been left alone since the 70s and they became a stable democracy though we don't like this as it is bad for our profits.



Finally the 'air strikes' and 'humanitarian aid ' are going to be used to topple Assad.
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[wr6133]

Bomb the whole fucking region flat. Backward, worthless, hateful, primitive untermensch. Seriously even the "good" ones are camel fucking primitives. Not one shit given here if we just carpet bombed the entire region till it's population was blown all the way down to zero.

[Stevie GooGs]

It is pointless....how will bombing people stop the problem, its going to put more fuel in the fire so to speak. Next we will see a photo/video of airstrike taking out civilians which will turn even more people against the west.
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[Stevie GooGs]

[Itchy]

[moonzoomer]

No, nothing to do with the UK in any shape or form, if the yanks want to bomb another country to line their pockets then let them do it on their own.

[Rogerborg]

[RhynoCZ]

I said No to bombing and all those of you that want to bomb them I say, go to the army and apply for the position in the bomber plane or infantry and go there to do the job yourself. That's also what I tell to people that talk about death penalty and how cool would it be to have it back.

How many of those enemy ''soldiers'' actually are there and what technology and weapons they have, that you want to wipe them out? I understand that people in the USA are brainwashed and everything they do from the moment they are born is aimed for killing and hatred, but I've never though UK would even consider this.

I don't keep up with the news but all they wanted was to have their own country, right?
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[smegballs]

I agree with Itchy, to do the job properly, they (the states) would need to go in with the gloves off and fuck shit up in a major fashion. There would be widespread destruction, loads of innocent folks would die and shit would probs get a lot worse before it gets better. Sadly that is what a proper war is like: fucking horrible.

Of course all that sort of stuff is long-term, most importantly over several election cycles. When your politicians are only concerned with the next 4 years, who will pass up the chance to use a war as ammo against the opposing party?

I think this is the view shared by lots of us troops (and ex-troops): "either let us go in with the gloves off and commit to a war properly or don't send us at all".

This post talks about it reasonable well I think:

https://www.oafnation.com/musings-of-a-grey-man/2014/9/18/slls-americas-modern-method-of-waging-war

[wr6133]

[DrSnoosnoo]

[Kris]

[The Wobbly Orange]

I tend to think of airstrikes more as a containing measure than a defeating measure. If we can keep them over there exploding to a US or British missile then that is a few fewer of them to come here and explode on a crowded bus in the middle of Bristol or Edinburgh.
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[RhynoCZ]

To all above,

I am a civilian person that gets only those informations, that people that rule this country, Europe, the world, give me via the internet and Tv. I've got no power or authority to get those informations otherwise.

I had 2 semesters of International law at the faculty, it was about wars and conflicts and international war crimes and so on = big players do whatever they want and history books are made so the next generation will feel proud about what has been done (USA, Israel, Russia, UK, Belgium, France and so on - all fake mostly at the: and the locals just moved or extinct part)
Anyway, for you, not Slavs, is this conflict somehow important. The only Tv news we get here about the situation are, that Obama decided to start the first wave = shooting Tomahawk rockets from 1000 miles away ships at basically random targets in the area. Or that the most modern fighter aircrafts (USAF) are shooting at ''what they've told us'' the ''enemy'' bases were. And I could go on.

About those executions, well, what to say really. There was this case of two Czech women who got kidnapped in the middle east, now no one heard of them a while. There were videos with holding the newspaper and reading the prepared text with gun to the head and so on. Who were those two women? I can tell you, they were stupid. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs told them not to go, the airline company told them not to go, and others told them not to go, that it was a dangerous area especially for white women. Did they listen? Apparently not. We are Czech republic, we don't bomb people just because of 2 citizens get missing in the area that was marked as not safe. Have you heard about the case? No you have not. Why? Because we are a no name country in the west of what people still call ex-soviet area and we don't have the power to enforce a thing. Our army only goes to those bombed out areas/countries to build roads, hospitals, schools and so on, and train local police to restore the order. A friend of mine, that's in the army, actually was in various places, to do such a work.

Anyway, back to the today's events, all the executed people were reporters and people that went to the area for some, for me incomprehensible, reason. I'm pretty sure their governments also told them not to go there. If they were soldiers then I'd understand, that they can get into captivity. It is their job to go to places that civilians would never go to. That's what's being a combatant is all about in terms of the international law. You know, it's nice that the western world obeys the rules it made itself, but those rules mean nothing to the middle eastern people, they don't even know them and they have never agreed to obey them.


TL; DR
So, I still say no to bombing. If it's necessary, send the infantry. The locals have AK-47's, that never hit the target twice, and some old modified cars. Is it really necessary to drop tons of freedom on them? For 'muricans, this must be the best video game ever, piloting drones from back home, shooting at defenceless people from jet fighters and 1000 miles away ships and so on.
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[smegballs]

[_Chris_]

Voted 'yes'... but

SHOULD we? Yes
CAN we? I'm not sure.

How sure our the intelligence guys that they know, without shadow of a doubt, where IS members are, and that they can be taken out cleanly with a bomb dropped from a military jet?

We need to accept the fact we have allowed a primitive barbaric culture to breed in the UK, and when we start dropping bombs on the 'holy muslim warriors' we can expect some backlash.

I'd like to see less MPs apologising for muslim behavior, every protest/killing/video is always met with 'well, obviously that's not the REAL islam'.
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[Im-a-Ridah]

There is the question of the UK should bomb them, or other countries should bomb them. Should other countries? I don't care. Should the UK? Well it's only another 6 planes so it's not really a ground breaking deal is it? It's just tokenism so Dave can sit at the table too.

We might want to sort out our own country first. 1600 white kids raped and sexually abused by muslims in Britain and the police did NOTHING because they thought doing so it raciss? 500 residents off with ISIS? Ridiculous immigration levels? Can't insult the sky wizard without getting arrested? Sounds like our human rights need a bit of re-enforcement too.

[oldpink]

another 2 - 5 years of conflict costing Trillions that we can't afford

have they learned nothing from there past actions
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[The Wobbly Orange]

[The Wobbly Orange]

[Im-a-Ridah]

[Boris the spider]

MPs votes done

Aye - 524
Naw - 43

Bombing it is then
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[oldpink]

No boots on the ground ??


Oh no combat troops on the ground
thats how Vietnam started
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[c_dug]

I've no trust or faith in anything "they" say any more.

It's a little bit "boy who cried wolf" really, IS might really be a wolf, but I've heard enough bullshit from the government to cast a reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt being enough not to send a person to prison, let alone fire rockets from fighter jets at them.

Still, what we want is of little relevance really, once our local MP's are voted in they'll go and do their own thing anyway.
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