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Lightweight (Airportable) Landrover rebuild.

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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 10:44 - 29 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does this run on 24v? or are they 6v batteries? Why does it run 2 in series eitherway?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 29 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
So does this run on 24v? or are they 6v batteries? Why does it run 2 in series eitherway?


Its a 24v FFR, fitted for radio complete with a 90amp generator bolted to the engine. Everything is screened and earthed even the bodywork to stop interference. A side effect of being 24v is less electrical problems which is why most things work after 20 years of sitting still.

They can actually run 4 batteries, two vehicle batteries and two seperate radio batteries on a completely seperate charging circuit.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 14:23 - 29 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
A side effect of being 24v is less electrical problems which is why most things work after 20 years of sitting still.
.


Purely because 24v uses larger gauge wiring and more resilient components?
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Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 14:36 - 29 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give me a shout next time you plan on doing anything daytime mid week and I'll stop by, I would like to see the old wreck (and the Land Rover).
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 29 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Purely because 24v uses larger gauge wiring and more resilient components?


24v tends to cut through corrosion a lot better than 12v just as 12v tends to do it a lot better than 6v. 6v was still used on cars up until the mid 50's especially American cars.

With the operating voltage at 24v the amperage is cut in half compared to a 12v system to get the equivalent watts and in fact can use thinner guage wiring.

For example a 60 watt headlight bulb would require the following...

60(watts) / 12(v) = 5amps
60(watts) / 24(v) = 2.5amps

remember how many amps you want to put along a wire decides how thick it needs to be.

Many military vehicles and pieces of equipment were made in 24v including helicopters, jet engine starters and radios. In fact many still are so having 24v Land Rovers which could be used for radios, jump starting helicopters etc was extremely useful.

In the late 70's when the shah of Iran was overthrown there were a lot of orders for tanks and Land Rovers as well as other equipment on the books that had already been paid for, these were never delivered but from what I have read ended up being given to the British forces for free. When you consider in 1974 the cost of my Land Rover to the Britsh Taxpayer was just over £40,000 due to the complex electronics getting several hundred vehicles for free was a bonus. This led to 24v models becoming quite common although they were often used as General Service vehicles instead of as FFR's.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 29 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just realised something very stupid.

Tried the manual lift lever and it is pumping so may not be the pump although if it is they are less than £20 to replace.

These things run dual tanks and a switchover tank. When I laid it up I must have switched it over to the almost empty tank as a security thing. The tap is siezed so i can't swap over tanks at the moment so off to pick up some petrol to see if it'll start.

Embarassed Whoopsie Embarassed

I won't try and start it tonight, will wait for tomorrow until I have changed the oil and filter.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 30 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well just ran into another odd problem. The sump bolt is huge and uses an imperial size washer which of course I don't have in my toolbox.

I also can't find the torque value for either the sump bolt or the oil filter bolt as neither are in the Haynes manual.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 30 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Well just ran into another odd problem. The sump bolt is huge and uses an imperial size washer which of course I don't have in my toolbox.

I also can't find the torque value for either the sump bolt or the oil filter bolt as neither are in the Haynes manual.
Is it a copper or aluminium washer you can heat and reuse?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 30 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

yen_powell wrote:
Is it a copper or aluminium washer you can heat and reuse?


Copper but seriously flattened from being used several times and being overtightened. Best to just replace considering it was pretty much cold welded to the sump bolt.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 31 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to get hold of a sump washer but not much else.

Its an interesting design, where it appears to be split is actually for it to thread onto the sump bolt to keep it centralised and then it has an extra layer for the actual sealing.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150731_144732.jpg

Couldn't get the other drain bolt washers so will have to special order them later.


Last edited by sickpup on 05:27 - 05 Aug 2015; edited 1 time in total
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 31 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

So theres a filter and oil in it now but the oil pressure light doesn't work. After a lot of faffing about with the multi meter it looks like the bulb may be blown so I've tried to change it and it appears to be corroded together looking like this...

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150731_163238.jpg

Bulb holder goes into a black tube to direct light to front of dash. I will need to make a call and make sure these bits are still available before cutting them off.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 31 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been saving reading this thread for a time when I was properly bored, nice going Sickpup, wish I'd read it earlier!

Some fun facts...I learned to drive using a series IIa 1974 LWB and I could pretty much tell you not only where you'll find rot but also the reason why (something you may have learned en route). It would appear that Solihull decided back in 1974 to start using recycled steel, something went wrong with the QC and models produced in this year are well known for turning into rust heaps.
Chassis, sub members, bulkhead (and we found door uppers but I'm not sure if the lightweight had steely uppers, assuming it ever had any) were all prone to raging rot - at a rate much quicker than your average Landy, which may go some way towards explaining the weirdness with the chassis plate on the bulkhead.

I'm back in the UK after mid August and have a feeling that the old man still has a full set of OEM IIa workshop manuals (bodywork and electrics are considerably different but I suspect that a lot of the other stuff is interchangeable - he's long since progressed onto driving scabby Discos and if I can find them and they're any use to you... Smile

On a similar topic what size wellies does she run on? My mother would dearly love to see the back of a huge assorted collection of old rubber and would welcome any reduction in the pile - all aged but there is some stuff in there with decent tread for various applications (some on rims, a lot not, probably in excess of twenty of the bloody things cluttering up the yard)

I'll also ask the old man if he's got any useful 'put away in a corner of the garage, never to see the light of day, just in case bits' left from the family's days tinkering with Landys, I'll see what's left, if anything and if you're interested...
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LongJohn22
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 02 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

In the late 70's when the shah of Iran was overthrown there were a lot of orders for tanks and Land Rovers as well as other equipment on the books that had already been paid for, these were never delivered but from what I have read ended up being given to the British forces for free. When you consider in 1974 the cost of my Land Rover to the British Taxpayer was just over £40,000 due to the complex electronics getting several hundred vehicles for free was a bonus. This led to 24v models becoming quite common although they were often used as General Service vehicles instead of as FFR's.

The Shah bought 800 Chieftain tanks early in the 70's, an order that was increased by the purchase of a number of Scorpion tracked reconnaisance vehicles in the mid 70's. I'm not at all sure that Landies were part of the deal, but in the late 70's, a greatly modified Chieftain was on order at the time of the Revolution, at which time the Shah was overthrown, and, although the tanks were paid for in advance, was ultimately cancelled.
The whole episode was ,in fact, a huge money laundering exercise, carried out with the full knowledge and co-operation of the British Government of the time, and it wasn't until around 2005 or thereabouts, that the money, ( some 400 million pounds), was refunded to the Iranian Government.
The tank order that was cancelled left the Brits with a substantial number of tanks with nowhere to go, some were sold to Jordan, some to Iraq, most of the others were further modified and were sold to the British Army as Challenger 1.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 04:55 - 03 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

John

I couldn't say for certain that it was correct but I read the above years ago and it was used as the explanation for why Lightweights became so prevalent in the UK forces when they was no longer a need for them and why the 24v FFR's became so prevalent that they were used in the GS role even though they cost something like double the price of a GS.
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LongJohn22
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 03 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying you were wrong, just that I hadn't heard about the Land Rover part of the deal. I was in Iran from 1973-77 as part of the Chieftain deal and all I heard about was Chieftain, Scorpion and Swingfire missiles being sold. The Shah bought military equipment from a number of nations, supposedly so he wasn't overly reliant on any single supplier for his kit. The Land Rover type vehicles that he had were overwhelmingly Russian in origin and pretty bloody awful, plenty of other Russian built stuff lying about, quite interesting to us Brits.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 08 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its been a busy morning, been working on the truck since 07.30 and got a fair amount done.

First thing I did was strip everything out of the front and sprayed it with degreaser. 20 years of oil mist tends to make a mess atracting dirt and crap that sticks tenaciously. Spent a couple of hours scrubbing it out and destroyed a new dish washing brush but its a lot cleaner inside now.

Finally finished spraying up the last bit of tube for the wiper assembly and fitted it. Rewired the washer nozzle pump so that is all finished short of getting some wiper arms fitted.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150808_131009.jpg

I also finally finished all the fittings on the vent panel and everything is now bolted up and in place except for the right hand demister hose. The previous owner fitted an oil pressure switch which is a nice addition but unfortunately they fitted it blocking the heater outlet so that will have to be moved at some point.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150808_130904.jpg

The battery box inbetween the seats is scubbed out and ready to paint if I decide to do so and with the batteries in place I cut and drilled some angle Aluminium to use as battery retainers.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150808_104046.jpg

It still needs 'T' bolts to hold them in place, I just don't have any yet.

Having the batteries secure is particularly important as a big metal cover goes over the top of them and you really don't want them contacting it as they will go bang.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150808_104203.jpg

The battery cover needs the top sanded back and a fresh coat of paint to finish it.

Finally figured out why the oil pressure light doesn't come on, it would seem the pressure switch is dead as it doesn't earth when the engine isn't running so I will need a new one of these before starting it up. As a double check I ran the wire that goes to it to earth and the dash warning lights up so definately the switch.

I have also managed to get power to the heater fan which I have never had. There is a fuse hidden away under the bulkhead away from the rest of the fuses which I didn't even know existed and isn't on the wiring diagram. At a guess it is because the earlier model didn't have a heater so this bit of wiring is a simple add on in the easiest way possible. Unfortunately the heater switch is dead so will need a new one of those.

Also discovered the dash light switch is dead. The dash lights are switched seperately from the main lights so again that will need replacing.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 03:15 - 28 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

No photos of the work at the moment but a fair amount has taken place over the last few weeks.

1. Replaced dash light switch
2. Replaced heater fan switch, it all works
3. Windscreen washers works
4. Winscreen wipers fitted and working
5. Replaced the carb to inlet rubber
6. Replaced inlet hose

I've fully tested the oil pressure switch which is defective so that should be getting changed this weekend.
There is an earth fault on the right hand front light cluster so that will be getting sorted hopefully this weekend as well. At the moment the earth loops back through the high beam live so the lights are very dim and the dash light doesn't work correctly.

If I manage to get the two above items fixed I will be able to bolt the dash back in place.

I had a large amount of parts turn up, unfortunately the sediment bowl was cracked on the new fuel lift pump so thats had to go back. I have a set of new windscreens sitting waiting to be fitted and hopefully I will have new seat backs and bases here in the next few weeks as they are being made to order. All in I'm happy with the speed things are going at, its rather a nice relaxed rebuild.

I did spend some time cleaning out my parts washer as it was full of crap, seems someone left a kidney in it

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/Odds%20and%20ends/20150816_183600.jpg

But it looks a lot better now

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/Odds%20and%20ends/20150816_220655.jpg
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 04 Sep 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It runs. Cool
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 04 Sep 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's cool news!

How many years had it been sat without being started?
Did you have to replace any ignition parts such as the HT leads to get it going, and is it a points ignition or an electronic triggered ignition that's fitted?

I think a nice BL O-series turbo would be the ideal sympathetic upgrade for it though! There's a Morris Marina saloon on a car forum I browse with this engine fitted, and apart from poor distributor access it's win win so far! Laughing
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 05 Sep 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

First things first, the oil pressure switch has been changed. Reasonably good access to this but it is a 1" fitting and I don't have a 1" deep reach socket so was a bit of a bitch to tighten up but now the pressure light comes on and goes out with the engine running as it should.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150905_110906.jpg

The fuel tap was next. This is the tap for switching between the two underseat fuel tanks. Really not the easiest thing to remove as the fuel lines are inflexible so need removing with the tap in situ so working mostly by feel. Removed, deseized and a new cork rubber gasket fitted. Unfortunately no pictures of it coming apart as I was covered in 20 year old petrol at the time.

This is the fuel tap, that black pipe is the fuel line to the carb, the ones from the tank are underneath so you can see how little access space there is.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150903_133134.jpg

Next was the fuel lifter pump. Not a fuel pump as many would know that sits in the tank and pushes the fuel. This is a vacuum lifter pump working off I believe the cam. It creates a vacuum lifting the fuel from the tank, the original had a shot diaphram and a replacement was the same price as a rebuild kit.

There it is below the distributor

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150905_103846.jpg

A closer look

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150905_103839.jpg

Its held on with two nuts, one accessable with a socket from above and one from below with a spanner. Theres a lever on the side to manually prime the sediment bowl and then you turn over the engine to get it going well.

So at this point I thought I need to see if it will start. So turn it over and check to see if theres was fuel reaching the carb and there wasn't so diconnected the fuel line from the carb and placed it in a jug and turned it over till fuel came out. Reconnected it and it started only to discover there is some perished fuel line and 20 year old smelly petrol went everywhere but it did start, it did idle and it was as smooth as I remembered it to be.

stevo as b4 wrote:
How many years had it been sat without being started?


About 20 years

stevo as b4 wrote:
Did you have to replace any ignition parts such as the HT leads to get it going, and is it a points ignition or an electronic triggered ignition that's fitted?


Not even bothered to look at the ignition yet but its a fully screened points set up, extremely high quality so should be fine.

stevo as b4 wrote:
I think a nice BL O-series turbo would be the ideal sympathetic upgrade for it though! There's a Morris Marina saloon on a car forum I browse with this engine fitted, and apart from poor distributor access it's win win so far! Laughing


Not really appropriate in this, sorry.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 05 Sep 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've changed the perished fuel lines so it doesn't seep fuel now. Re-checked the oil and all seems fine. It does smoke from the exhaust manifold so I really need to jet wash the engine and clear all the crap out of the bay.

Thought I would add a video of it running in case you didn't believe me. Keep in mind it's a 60 year old engine design so a lot noisier than a modern lump.

It's alive!

I've checked the charging system which seems to be working fine, oil pressure is good so I am happy.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 09 Sep 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good news from DVLA for once.

I've been phoning DVLA for the last 3 weeks as I'm trying to get the vehicle record sorted. When they changed to the new style log books they didn't issue one for this but they did change the vehicle record. Where on the previous log book it was registed as PLG (private light goods, basically a car) on the new it had put on some weight, 1.5 tons of it which took it from a class 4 MOT to a class 7 which is commercial.
DVLA also managed to make it 13 years younger which meant it wouldn't be able to pass an MOT as the regs got a lot stricter.

So spoke to DVLA today and I have been told that they will now be issueing an age related registration number although they are trying to find the original documents submitted at registration to find out what weight it was registered at before they sort that side of the problem.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 05:42 - 03 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been a long time since I posted and a lot more has been done. I need to take some pictures to show you everything but at the moment mainly words.

The new seat bases and backs turned up and are fitted. The new speedo turned up and is fitted.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150924_1229131.jpg

I've got new glass, bezel and seal for the guages just not had a chance to fit it yet.

I pressure tested the coolant system by running it up to temperature and as expected it blew out a coolant hose so they have all been ordered, delivered and some are fitted.
I've been working on the thermostat housing so I can fit a new thermostat. It's been de-rusted internally, primed and painted so now just needs reassembly. Once that and all the hoses are done I will be chemical flushing the coolant system in an attempt to remove all the crap and corrosion thats in it, might take a few goes and then refilling with fresh coolant mix.

To give you an idea the thermostat housing (complete with split coolant hose) has gone from this

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150924_123426.jpg

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20151208_151157.jpg

To this

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20151210_091324.jpg

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20151210_091337.jpg

Yes thats a new brass thermostat which cost less that £4.00, compare that to bike prices for parts.

And various other new parts that are waiting to be fitted.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20150920_012715.jpg

I'll try and get some more pictures for you all to look at shortly.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 04 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more pictures of the interior

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20160104_074101.jpg

New pedal rubbers

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20160104_074110.jpg

New windscreens on the passenger seats.

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20160104_074121.jpg

https://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/750RK/LandRover/20160104_074132.jpg
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pdg
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 05 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedal rubbers?

Riding bikes all these years must've softened you up Laughing
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