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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Race direction DID look at the JL yellow flag incident, and it came out AFTER the pass. Case closed.

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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
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Race direction DID look at the JL yellow flag incident, and it came out AFTER the pass. Case closed.


I see. Doesn't seem to stack up though. Why put the yellow out after they'd passed. There were no crashes behind them. Thinking
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Liam_
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:

I see. Doesn't seem to stack up though. Why put the yellow out after they'd passed. There were no crashes behind them. Thinking


Marshals flag regardless of whether riders were past the incident or not.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liam_ wrote:


Marshals flag regardless of whether riders were past the incident or not.


There wasn't an incident though. (Apparently it was an incorrectly waved flag hence no penalty).
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a long term Rossi supporter I have to say I'm really disappointed in what I saw today. The best season in years ruined through sheer stupidity and his (Rossi) belief that everyone else should just move over and let him and Lorenzo fight it out. I've been fairly critical of some of Marquez's on the edge antics in the past and have perhaps given Rossi the benefit of the doubt on occasions but not today.

No matter what Marquez was doing (and all I saw him do was racing hard), Rossi's current predicament is 100% of his own making. Not very often I agree with Lorenzo but if it had been any rider other than Rossi the punishment would certainly have been much more severe.

Sad
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cartoon head
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enduro Numpty wrote:
As a long term Rossi supporter I have to say I'm really disappointed in what I saw today. The best season in years ruined through sheer stupidity and his (Rossi) belief that everyone else should just move over and let him and Lorenzo fight it out. I've been fairly critical of some of Marquez's on the edge antics in the past and have perhaps given Rossi the benefit of the doubt on occasions but not today.

No matter what Marquez was doing (and all I saw him do was racing hard), Rossi's current predicament is 100% of his own making. Not very often I agree with Lorenzo but if it had been any rider other than Rossi the punishment would certainly have been much more severe.

Sad





Well said... He should of been disqualified at the very least .
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It started with some of the most incredible racing we've seen in MotoGP. The red mist descended and blood boiled. It was incredible to watch. And then disbelief. Yes it was likely to end in tears, but not a deliberate punt off the track.

At the time I was in shock, we all sat round the TV with jaws on the floor.
It looked 100% Rossi's fault and that was my opinion.

But having seen the slow mo vids I've changed my mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKiMMANG5fU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQHxY2ibe8

Yes Rossi ran him out wide, but it happens in racing all the time. Everyone enjoys a "tough battle".
Marc had options to cutback but chose not to.

The main issue for me was the leg, I was sure Rossi kicked him off. But the replays don't show that.

They show Marc hitting Vale's leg (VR's leg moves inwards on his own bike as he has been hit by Marc). Then VR instinctively shoved his knee out.
VR is facing forward at the time he shoved his knee out. If it was deliberate, he would not have known how close Marc was, the only reason he knew was the impact.

I've gone from thinking Rossi is 100% to blame, to now thinking he's been robbed of a championship.

Of course as others have said, if he'd not run Marc off the track it would not have happened.

The unwritten rule that riders don't get involved in championship battles they are not in, I'm open either way on this point. I don't know if Marc was deliberately slowing in places in this or Philip Island, although Race Direction have confirmed that he was.
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almostthere
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PostPosted: 20:46 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: rossi Reply with quote

you must have seen a different race to me then Rossi deliberately moves his knee out to hit Marquez on the overtake as for unwritten rules what nonsense Marquez is free to race however he wants as is vale if Rossi hasn't got the pace to beat Marquez and catch Lorenzo that's his problem
should make the last race more exciting Very Happy
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Billy Balthorpe
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive had a good look at this in slow-mo, from all the angles, here's what I think happened.
After getting frustrated with Marc, Rossi pushed him wide (not good, but it happens a lot), after a few hard stares from Rossi, Marc just gives Rossi an extra nudge just before he loses the front, you can see this clearly in the footage. At this point I think Marc's front brake protector hooked under Rossi's ankle and, as he picks up from the nudge, Rossi's foot is pulled from the peg and touches his front brake lever, as Marc's bike slows and folds Rossi's leg is now free and he puts it back on the peg.

Yes, Rossi did deliberately push Marc wide, but I don't think he meant for him to crash, there was enough room for them both at the speed they were going at the point of the crash.
The actual cause of the crash was because Marc hooked up Rossi's leg trying to give him a shove in return for running him wide. If he hadn't done that, they both would have stayed on.

I think they both should have had a severe chewing out, but ultimately, a racing incident between two highly strung racers.
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: rossi Reply with quote

almostthere wrote:
you must have seen a different race to me then Rossi deliberately moves his knee out to hit Marquez on the overtake as for unwritten rules what nonsense Marquez is free to race however he wants as is vale if Rossi hasn't got the pace to beat Marquez and catch Lorenzo that's his problem
should make the last race more exciting Very Happy


MM made contact with VR, then the leg went out. It was a reactive thing.

Last week, all us fans were the winners. This week, we're the losers and have been robbed of a great championship. The Rossi fanbois* are starting to do my swede in now; Marquez is undoubtedly an annoying little shit but this is all of Rossi's own making. He wound MM up in the press conference and picked a fight with the only rider on the grid that passes as hard and as well as him. That might have worked when he was 10 years younger, but not now.



*I don't have much time for any of the top 4, though I marginally prefer VR.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even the Yamaha team in the garage instantly knew what an idiotic thing Rossi did. Not sure how anyone can blame MM for that. He was racing hard, broke no rules. Rossi slowed right down mid corner and just didn't turn in and turned his head multiple times MID CORNER! I mean it wasn't even subtle. Totally his own fault and should have been DQ'd.

People defending Rossi saying MM was riding too aggressively. Laughing Laughing
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently over 50,000 people have already signed a petition on change.org for the penalty to be removed.

I'm not a believer in these online petition things (although I signed) but it shows the strength if feeling about this.

On first watching, I thought VR did knee MM off, but footage from other angles proves otherwise.

Either way, as others have said, they way MM was riding and goading VR, there was no way they were both going to go the distance. One or the other, or both would have been offed.

Very, very much sadness here though as the championship is irreversibly tarnished. Also, no sense of anticipation for Valencia now.

I'm just glad I didn't book that surprise trip to Valencia for Sid after all. Crying or Very sad
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
Apparently over 50,000 people have already signed a petition on change.org for the penalty to be removed.

I'm not a believer in these online petition things (although I signed) but it shows the strength if feeling about this.

On first watching, I thought VR did knee MM off, but footage from other angles proves otherwise.

Either way, as others have said, they way MM was riding and goading VR, there was no way they were both going to go the distance. One or the other, or both would have been offed.

Very, very much sadness here though as the championship is irreversibly tarnished. Also, no sense of anticipation for Valencia now.

I'm just glad I didn't book that surprise trip to Valencia for Sid after all. Crying or Very sad


Unfortunately the irony of that petition asking for the championship to continue in fairness is that VR kept his points; MM didn't get any.

If JLo finishes 3rd, Rossi needs 6th or better. Unlikely. If JLo is 4th, Rossi needs 9th which is entirely possible.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

It could be one of those wet/dry races that Jorge doesn't do well in.
Last round and history is littered with racers wanting to end the season on a high...Ducatis...Satellites etc.

Would be amazing to see Rossi catch up to Marquez again. He could spend 3 days working on race pace now qualifying is redundant.[shrugs]

I don't know what was really going on in their heads. Both riders losing the fronts so obviously pushing hard. Both have history of bin it or win it attitude although Rossi less so, until today that is. Marc Marquez in Moto2 was borderline disgraceful.
They're as ruthless as each other and the sport is better for it.
Rubbing is racing. FTFW!
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: rossi Reply with quote

almostthere wrote:
you must have seen a different race to me then Rossi deliberately moves his knee out to hit Marquez on the overtake as for unwritten rules what nonsense Marquez is free to race however he wants as is vale if Rossi hasn't got the pace to beat Marquez and catch Lorenzo that's his problem
should make the last race more exciting Very Happy


Marquez is free to ride however he wants ?, I din't think that Lorenzo would agree to that after that extremely 'ambitious' overtaking manoeuvre a few races back where he was 'fairing banged' out of the way, which to me looked deliberate. As far as I'm concerned today's action was karma.
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ScottT
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 25 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running Marquez out wide complete with hard stare, was a typical road rage reaction you see everyday on the commute.
Only Rossi will ever know if the leg movement was intentional or not, we can only guess.
When Lorenzo passed Rossi, Rossi only made a half hearted attempt to try to pass him back then gave up, he seems to want to fight Marquez more than Lorenzo.

Be interesting to see what happens if it comes down to Rossi having to get past Marquez to win the championship in the last race.
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Old Git Racing
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PostPosted: 00:50 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've raced, if he'd done that to me I'd have punched his lights out as soon as he came into pit lane. Regrettably politics and sponsors would never allow that, been more fun if it happened though.

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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the blind cult fanaticism for Rossi that I find most odd - and so many voices are always going to be heard. Whether or not you agree with the end result, or anything that happened before, it's done and dusted now and what remains to be seen is what happens in the final race. This idea that the rest of the field should part before Rossi to let him get up to Lorenzo so they can battle it out for the championship is just not racing that I want to see. If i want to see that, i'll go and fall asleep watching F1.

One thing is for sure, the gloves are well and truly off and it's going to be a firecracker of a final race.
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleBFester wrote:
It's the blind cult fanaticism for Rossi that I find most odd - and so many voices are always going to be heard. Whether or not you agree with the end result, or anything that happened before, it's done and dusted now and what remains to be seen is what happens in the final race. This idea that the rest of the field should part before Rossi to let him get up to Lorenzo so they can battle it out for the championship is just not racing that I want to see. If i want to see that, i'll go and fall asleep watching F1.

One thing is for sure, the gloves are well and truly off and it's going to be a firecracker of a final race.



You say they shouldn't move out of rossi's way but in BTCC recently sheddon was allowed thru, all but 1 drive let him pass, Alan gow thought this was right and showed respect, let's say he lost my respect by saying that.
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gorillaonabik...
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

MM was p!ssing Rossi off. Rossi pulled a dick move to push him out wide. MM leant on him and fell off.

Rossi could've simply tolerated MM holding him up but then again, what kind of ultra-competitive, top level racer puts up with being deliberately held up?
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Liam_
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

NASCAR have a 100% rule, any drivers deemed not to be giving 100% by race direction can be penalised. Not only would it have stopped what happened on sunday but It also stops team orders
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe MM has been faking a shit bike all season so he could lean off the power and use it as an excuse to be a little slower in the later races .... after all every time he leans on the front end, it falls out from under him? Good excuse to slow down a bit and get in the way of people (VR) as much as he can.

Surprised this hasn't been levelled as another one of the many reasons that MM is playing some kind of game.

Funny thing is, isn't that 'slow the pack down' thing one of Lorenzos talents? No one complains when he does it, that's racing!
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just managed to watch the race, after properly struggling to avoid seeing a result for the last 36 hours or so.

Wow!

I have to say that the slow mo linked on the previous page looks an awful lot like Rossi knocks Marquez's brake lever/bars, Rossi's foot moves backwards and at the same time Marquez's left hand juts forwards, as if his right hand had been pushed back the opposite direction.

I'm quite a fan of Rossi purely for what he's done for the sport and biking in general but a DQ would have been fair IMO.

Personally I think Rossi would have pushed Marquez right off of the track had Marquez not gone down.



Also what is Kent playing at, it was pretty much his championship to lose a few races back and he's let the pressure get to him.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

The slo mo I saw looked like MM made contact with Rossi's knee, and Rossi instinctively brushed him away, as anyone would if something touches your leg. The crash was not a direct result of this, rather Marquez was already overstretched and caught another part of Rossi's bike, or something on Rossi's bike caught his brake lever.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 26 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petition going international. 185k+ signatures in 24 hours
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