JJonth gallery (elbow down... almost)

[jjonth]

I'd say forget the trackdays and shove yourself in at the deepend lol, no honest. I had 4 months riding experience before I started and didn't even know where to put my feet on the pegs as I go around corners so they don't scrape. I borrowed 1 of my Uncles old Honda MT125's and raced them in the forgotten era races which were mixed with the New Era club last year. I didn't get along with it all and kept crashing them as I was used to my road going Aprilia which is a far better bike lol. In Mid June I got the bike pictured (1991 Honda RS125R) and did my first meeting at Darley Moor on it and it was great, from there I've been doing it almost every weekend up till Mid October. For next year my dads ordered me a 2005 model RS125R which is gonna rule.

I'd say go for a 125, they are cheap to buy, you can get a 1990-1994 model for about £900-1500 for a good one and they cost a threpence to maintain (regardless of what other people say they really are easy to maintain and set up). You will learn alot about cornering on a GP125 bike and they don't dispode of tyres like big 4 strokes do, even 400's. I've gone through 1 pair of slicks from when I got it in June, compare that to the 3 sets a weekend the 600's are doing! Then theres the way 600's crash, they will cost you a grand straight away if you flip them. You will very rarley highside or flip a 125 over and it just slides on its side in most cases. I dumped mine 3 times and the only damage I did was 1 footpeg, a rearset, 2 brake levers and a rear brake lever (about £30s worth lol)

If you live in Leeds then thats not far from me as I go to the Art college there every day on my Aprilia. I live near Huddersfield. Theres a couple of good clubs which only run at one club all year, Darley Moor https://www.darleymoor.co.uk/1main.htm and North East https://www.nemcrc.co.uk/ which run their meeting at Croft. New Era's a good one and run a few at Oulton Park and Donnington which are also close (about 1 hour away from Huddersfield) Look at the How to start racing part on the Darley Moor website as its got load of good info on it.

I'd definatley say a GP125 and if you get an older one (1994 or older) then you can enter this series my dad and a friend are organising, theres a load of cash prizes to be won (about £2000 worth I think) and we already have about 15 of us doing them. If you can get a copy of this weeks copy of bikesport news as theres a load of info in there about it. If you want any other info don't hesitate to email me, my adress is JJonth@AOL.com

[G]

I know people that have done what you have done.
However I've also heard of a lot of people that have done this and given up because they have got too disheartened from being way behind the pack... and thus not really learning much.

I would agree that a 600 isn't an ideal bike to start with; however I should add that when I crashed my r6 at Snetterton the total cost of repairs was £45 for a new dubble screen; would have been less if I hadn't got it from Rod Hardwin on the day.
This was braking for the russels chicane, but still going pretty fast from corams.
Tyres will be costing me £180 or so for each meeting, then should be able to get some money back selling the scrubs.
I could make them last longer, but as far as staying competitive goes it's not that expensive.

I don't know how much your dad helped... but most of the people that have started from nothing have had encouragement from experienced fathers (and usually financial support).
Those that haven't had this, or previous track experience have found that it's far too easy to drown when you jump in at the deep end.
From what I've seen of them it takes a bit of knowledge to work on GP bikes; ie changing carb settings for the weather etc etc.


Now, I am looking at going for Bemsee rookie 600s; which I know is pretty damn competitive, but even for the less competitive clubs, it's going to be a much less steep and much cheaper learning curve doing a few trackdays first.

[Jon]

Even cheaper is the CB500 cup with NewEra. No engine mods allowed apart from race can etc. controlled tyres (road tyres). parts are dirt cheap.

A hell of a lot cheaper than 125's, 600's and so on, and it's apparently pretty damn competitive (they race with the Hornets about 5 seconds slower.)

[jjonth]

Our family have raced 125's for 3 generations, many at British GP level in 80cc's-250cc's and when they did Marlbro championships, in fact my unlce won the Marlbro 80cc and my dads friend who is helping with the series won the 125cc championship. My Grandad used to race old 125's putting out 12bhp so yes I have a lot in the way of backing and help setting 2 stroke race bikes, but it only took me a couple of weeks to get into the habit of doing plug chops and feeling how the bike runs, it doesn't take a genius and you feel good for it at the end as you are learning other stuff too. I see what your saying about competitiveness, but most of the riders who we have are old ex racers who just want to get out on track again, we have alsorts of champions from 20 odd years ago who have carried on racing to this day and people who raced in GP's so just think of the knowledge and experience these people can pass on to riders new to the sport. We have a few young novices who will be racing with us this year who have only done a bit of Motocross or not even ridden a bike much at all. They will all be much better off learning on proper race bike instead of spending a fortune buying 2 Aprilia RS125's (one for dry and wet) as in a year or two they will most probably be riding a newer RS Honda anyway so will have to learn how to set them up and thats where our 3 generations of experience counts as we are there to help as much as we are to race. 50% of our riders where at one time involved in British or World Championships, all 2 stroke racers and have alot of knowledge when it comes to setting up and maintaining machines.

In the end a CB500 is just a heavy, steel framed road bike. OK its competitive racing and its good fun, but wouldn't you rather be doing the same and costing you about as much on a proper GP race bike?? We are all out there for fun and no one will be spending the £1500 these things cost just to get a 1BHP gain. Whatever anyone says they don't cost alot to run and they are a doddle to set up (simple plug chop in practice and a 2 minute jet change) and as I said, we're all there to help as we would all rather see new riders on proper race bikes instead of Commuter bikes. The response we have already has amazed us and our article has only been in Bikesport for 2 days! We have a website coming online soon too and we are as interested in the social side of it as we are the racing. It may take a year or two for it to take off snd get recognised and we may struggle to get over 15 riders out at any one time, but it will happen eventually I can guarantee you. It only needs a pack of 3 or 4 of you together on evenly matched machinery to have a good race and it doesn't matter if you battling for first or for 2nd to last it's still enjoyable so even if we only have 12-15 we will still have a real good time.

[G]

I think that would be my point about your family supporting you.

I admit I've never done anything with a GP bike, though I would like to. However I haver spoken to people that have and that know about it.

From what I've heard it's generally much easier to set up road bikes; and most serious riders can already do this to some degree.

I would agree that joining a more 'local' club is probabably a better idea for the novice. (He says as he applies to BMCRC.) But I still think trackdays would help a lot to get 'prepared' for racing; something which a family that's into it probably makes up for.

You mention people going onto a 'proper' honda rs125 after their aprilias.... I do actually like the idea of GP bikes, but now'a'days everything is going 4 stroke production bike as far as club racing goes. Not helped by moto-dp either I suspect.
Well... the 4 strokes are getting a lot more popular and the 2 stroke grids are starting to dwindle.

[jjonth]

As the MotoGP 125's and 250's have been extended to 2012 or whatever Honda are now pouring aload of money into developing their 2 stroke production racers so its not MotoGP to blame, its just people who think 2 strokes cost alot to run and blow up alot, but every meeting I see a 400, 600 or 1000 blow up and spew oil all over the track, you call this reliability?? Ive only seen one 125 seize up all season and it's sad because I hear it all the time that people want to ride 2 strokes, but are put off because there mate says that they are unreliable. Anyway whatever happens 125's will never go away as from the ages of 12 up to 15 its the only thing you can race.

[G]

[jjonth]

Yeah the cost of making smaller 4 stroke classes would be the same as the MotoGP class. Trouble is no-one thinks and just says that they want all 4 stroke classes without considering the costs involved.

The maintenece we have done through out the year is as followed

1. Piston and ring change every 300 miles. Thats about £70 and it does about 6 days of racing so a month to 2 months. The newer bikes do a piston every 800 miles so thats alot better. Its a simple job and doesn't take long, after all these are race bikes and are so easy to work on as they need to be. Then to run it in you have to warm it up and let it cool 2 to 3 times then short-shift for a couple of laps in practice. The beauty about the single cylinder 2 stroke is that it is so simple and any engine work is not the hardest job to perform properly by anyone.

2. Clean it and general check after every weekend. Its no big job again and if you keep it clean like you should then you can spot problems early on. The early bikes tend to vibrate a bit more, not much, but it can still loosen bolts attaching the seat and the bracket holding silencer so its a good idea just to check around with a spanner after every race.

And thats it. A crank will last about 1200 miles and its one of the only jobs you have to take the whole engine out of the frame to perform, but you only have to do it every 6 months so its no big deal.

I see how with 4 strokes people like the idea of just fueling it up and racing it, but it doesn't take much more to be able to run these. Paying £70 on a piston every 2 months certainly beats having to spend £200 on tyres every weekend. For us the most expensive thing all weekend has always been the entry fees.

I hear alot of people go on about jets, but as it even says in the manual, you can run the standard size jet what comes in the carb and it will work well in most conditions. And it doesn't take much just do do a plug chop in practice and go up or down a jet size. We do a chop in practice, change up or down a main jet size and then do a chop on the cool down lap of the 1st race and see how it is and normally its perfect. We are only changing it from the main jet we had in the weekend before. We have never had to touch the needle, slow jet or all that crap. Just the Main jets and we have had it running spot on all year. I think the hardest thing about setting the carb is reading a spark plugs and that took me all of 3 weeks to learn lol. To us now its just 1 of the 3 thing we do in the morning.

1. Gearing.
2. Jetting.
3. Change to wets or slicks (not always needed, but you never know in this country lol)

[jjonth]

We got a bit of a website going now with links to aload of usefull sites explaining how to get into racing, finding a bike and infomation on the bikes.

www.pre95-125.co.uk

[Rollins]

How much was the '05 Honda RS125 then mate? It's a sexy little thing, but damn uncomforatable!
____________________
"... I wouldn't mind doing 130 up to a T junction, but unfortunately my bike tops out at 120 which is gay..."
2005 CBR600RR

[jjonth]

£7500 + VAT!! Although We can get the VAT knocked off through Earnshaws lol.

[Irdawood the 2nd]

[G]

Just a note on the reliability as it's been ressurected:
At Brands Hatch recently, I saw serveral two strokes have to pull off the track before the pit entracnce, while two four strokes did.
There were a lot more four strokes there. Yes, maybe they hadn't been well maintained, but doesn't give a great impression .

[jjonth]

Production or Race bikes?? I saw a Bimota V due or whatever they seize up at Mallory Post TT lol (they are a two stroke aren't they??) Av seen loads of Aprilia RS250's placed against walls after they have packed in lol. Its as if people think that buying a production 2 stroke mean they can just fuel it up and race it. I haven't seen that many race 2 strokes knacker up though, the only one I saw seize up was at Darley on the cool down lap and he chucked it into some tyres near the high speed esses.

Also Ive seen more than enough 600s and stuff blow up and throw oil everywhere. I saw one at donnington start smoking away at Redgate and he did an entire flying lap before he stopped and realised. They stopped everything for about 2 hours to clean it all up and this wasn't just some old shed, it was a brand new CBR600RR. With 2 strokes they may blow up, but they don't throw slippery shit everywhere.

Irdawood Im from Brockholes, you might have seen me in Earnshaws on Sundays as thats the only day I work there.

[G]

Sorry, GP bikes (thus why I mentioned it), there was a couple of production 2 strokes, but they were fine.

[jonboy]

[Irdawood the 2nd]

[jjonth]

The shops owned by my dad and his 3 brothers, so I just help about abit every Sunday.

G maybe they doing plug chops?? as its hard at Brands as the pit entrance isn't right after a straight. Just a thought??