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Fights and flame wars - What is it actually there for?!

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 Topic moved: from to Forum Feedback & Help by Korn (13 Oct 2004 - 13:19)
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Fights and flame wars - What is it actually there for?! Reply with quote

Well, I've just about stopped posting in fights and flame wars as the long often hailed/often hated karma bot kicks me in the bollocks every time I post something in there, regardless of content. Not only that, but I can't even post new topics in there, having instead to post them in here and hoping they get moved, creating more work for our moderators.

The rules of fights and flames were fair enough, and then they were updated, which is also fair enough. But now it seems we have an unofficial rule, that of "don't post in here at all, unless you really have to", So I'm forced to ask, why is fights and flame wars still there?

We can't post new topics, we can't post on existing ones without getting a kick in the karma, the F&F section may as well not exist at all IMO. I appreciate karma keeps things civil to some degree, but now we're not allowed to vent anywhere on the site, even in the section designed for it - without recrimination.

Why is the section there? Is it soon to be no more than a spiced up equivalent of the old posts archive? Is it going to be closed down? Are the moderators going to choose a subject and let us moan about it?
Is this all some kind of twisted and not-at-all-funny joke?

My karma has dropped from two gold to three and a bit green after about 5 or 6 posts there. At this rate, I'll be banned after another 30 posts in F&FW. Letting the karma bot off its leash really is throwing the fox in with the chickens. Yam's has lost a lot of karma and so have a few others. Where is it going to stop? Before, I was just able to tolerate the concept of the karma bot, but in light of this latest development It seems to me that the majority of the karma system is nothing more than a draconian check-and-balance toy to stop people from winding each other up, even though they'd rather be wound up by each other than by some malicious programming!

Of course, this isn't my site and it's not up to me how it gets run, and before ste says "if you don't like it, leave" I've said it for him. But he won't even be able to say that soon without dragging fellow members into a good old fashioned rant, in which the karma bot, like the oh-so-popular enforcers of political correctness which we so despise, punishes us for every post!

What is happening to F&F?! It's insane!
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Last edited by NSR125-Kid-UK on 13:48 - 13 Oct 2004; edited 1 time in total
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is you don't post a thread specifically with the intention of a fight or flame war. So threads get started elsewhere and if they turn into a fight or flame war then a mod moves it into there.

Believe the restrictions of not being allowed to post in ther and the karma system result for posting in there is an effort to discourage fights or flame wars on here and to encourage decent conversation.
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NSR125-Kid-UK This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Boring). Unhide this post / all posts.

Bendy
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vent all you like in any forum.

Only when it degenerates to petty name-calling bitchyness should it end up in F&FW.

The number of people posting 'I hate my life' whinges in F&FW was getting annoying - post them in Off-Topic and people will actually bother to respond.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want a topic moved to F&FW then give me a bell Very Happy I'll do my best....

Laughing

j/k people, calm it already..
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

The downside being that venting in other forums isn't "decent conversation". People want their hostility in one place, not spread all across the forum - that'd make the site almost as unfriendly and inhospitable as one run entirely by the karma bot.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is, it's when it turns into name calling and other such stuff that it gets moved to fights and flame wars.

What exactly are you wanting to post in fights and flame wars so badly anyway?
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh FFS Andy, STFU. Please. It really doesn't matter where you vent, its still the same old shit whether its in OTC, GBC or F&FW.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we have the right to disagree in this forum, and to argue your case, it only becomes a flame or fight when one starts deviating from the topic and trading insults, becoming abusive etc., seems sometimes its best to agree to disagree and shut up, safe in the knowledge that you are right Very Happy


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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have posted this in fights and flame wars, except if I'd have been able to without being in fear of my newly valued digital-life I wouldn't have needed to.
And STFU yourself colin.

And what happens if a thread does get moved to fights and flame-wars? let the protagonists fight it out there until the karma bot bans them? Easy way to get rid of troublemakers Laughing .
Unfortunatley also an indiscriminate way to see the back of someone who was only sticking up for him/herself.
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Last edited by NSR125-Kid-UK on 13:59 - 13 Oct 2004; edited 1 time in total
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you know what 'people' want?

Start a topic in on the forum. If people can keep it vaguely civil, it stays where it is. Only when you degenerate to petty bitching will it be moved.

I like nothing better than a well thought out vent and seeing what people say about it. People were posting interesting stuff in F&FW cos they thought you had to, and cos plenty people don't bother reading F&FW, no feedback. That's the point, it's simply meant to encourage people to keep it civil. Not PC, not arse licking, just civil.
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I retract that comment Smile. Me saying "people want blablabla" is like ste saying "people hate blablabla". What it really means is that I'd imagine that would be better than the alternative. What it probably means in Ste's case is "I hate and so should other people".
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zaknafien




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PostPosted: 14:01 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your mum.

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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaknafien wrote:
Your mum.

Shifty


Laughing

If we start moaning in here, the posts are moved to F&F, the effect is the same as it used to be except there's a lot more work for the moderators involved. Add to this the fact that no one can continue their arguments once their threads have been effectively locked by being put in the same room as a rabid karma bot with big pointy teeth and no chain, and arguments will die out not because they've been resolved, but because those involved have no choice but to discontinue.

The phrase "never go to bed mad" springs to mind.
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Last edited by NSR125-Kid-UK on 14:07 - 13 Oct 2004; edited 1 time in total
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

NSR125-Kid-UK wrote:
I would have posted this in fights and flame wars

You just provided a very good example of why you're not allowed to post in there as this thread isn't a fight or a flame wat, it's a general moan/ rant thus it gets posted in Offtopic Chat.
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

NSR125-Kid-UK wrote:
...there's a lot more work for the moderators involved.


What work? You mean moving the occaisional post to F&FW? I'm sure none of the mod's will be pushed over the edge into a nervous breakdown due to that workload.
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Last edited by McJamweasel on 14:10 - 13 Oct 2004; edited 1 time in total
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

What has it turned into?
"STFU Andy" ?
It would have become F&FW material If I took that the wrong way Smile.
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

NSR125-Kid-UK wrote:
If we start moaning in here, the posts are moved to F&FW


Did you even read what I wrote up there?
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petty bitching and normal moaning are just matters of opinion at the end of the day. People with no patience probably viewed the entire thread as petty bitching.

Of course I read what you posted, It is wasteful to solicit someone's opinion and then not listen to it (before anyone quotes me later i said "listen to", not "act on"). I try not to waste so many words these days Smile.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

And general moaning and petty bitching is posted in general chat as thats what it is, and if and when it turns into a fight or flame war it gets moved.
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

People with no patience aren't the ones with the powers to move the thread.

Why don't people just post? Fuck the karma bot, fuck PC, fuck what other people think of you - if you have something to say, say it. You might be surprised at the feedback.
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Korn
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Re: Fights and flame wars - What is it actually there for?! Reply with quote

If topics end up in Fights & Flame Wars, they've degraded beyond reasonable discussion and need to die. If they simply got locked or deleted, many people would cry censorship and start more threads trying to continue the argument and get the last word in.

This way, you have a choice. If you want to chip your bit in to the threads there, it'll cost you Karma. How much you really want to participate in the fights and petty arguments is therefore up to you... I don't want the rest of my shiny forum cluttered up with pointless bitching, name calling and petty squabbles. If that kind of stuff is what you're here for, you might want to investigate alternative forums.
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes ste I did wrap my tiny chav brain around that Idea Rolling Eyes Razz .
However making people pay to express their opinion is in principle still a matter of censorship, albeit a less draconian one.

Flame war forum! Bang on Mr Korn Thumbs Up Laughing .
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Spiral
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the new F&F section, simply because F&F could change into a tit for tat kinda thing now when i post there i make sure the insult is extra special. Laughing Laughing
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cliff
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 13 Oct 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bendy wrote:
Why don't people just post? Fuck the karma bot, fuck PC, fuck what other people think of you - if you have something to say, say it. You might be surprised at the feedback.

I could never agree with anything more ever. Bendy, you truely are a good mod. Thumbs UpSmile
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