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 Topic moved: from Random Banter to Politics & Current Affairs by G (3 Jul 2006 - 19:21)
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LewisD
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Joined: 30 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 04 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ahmato_ wrote:

Still, it will be interesting to see how many non-Muslims turn up..


I'm betting that thousands of british nationalist skinheads turn up outside the gates and kick off... i'd be lying if i said i wouldn't be tempted to join them..
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 13:17 - 05 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
daz|n00by wrote:
Fair point G but can you explain why public swimming baths owned by local councils are closing on certain days now to allow only muslim women to attend?

In that case, I'd see it quite reasonable for you to be 'slightly peeved' if this was inturupting your usual routine.

However, most public swimming pools I've been to close to the publi for other significant groups that may not want to be using the facilities around others - such as the young, old, pregnant mothers etc.
In the end, they could share the time with 'everyone', but these people would 'like' to have exclusive use of the facilities with other similar people.
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Vin
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 14 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
From crisismagazine.com (American)
The mission of CRISIS Magazine is to interpret and shape the direction of contemporary culture from a standpoint of Catholic tradition. We are dedicated to the proposition that the crisis of modernity can be answered by a Christian humanism rooted in the teachings of the Catholic Church. We bring the wisdom of the Catholic tradition into direct dialogue with contemporary politics and culture.
Bizarre website mate Laughing
EDIT
And as for this from freerepublic.com
Welcome to Free Republic!
Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!
Rolling Eyes
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 01:23 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I also find it strange tatters that you’re trying to defend Christianity while attacking Islam.

Neither are defendable, both have participated in the death and persecution of millions of people and both should be vehemently condemned and opposed at every turn.
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tatters
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PostPosted: 02:49 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
zaknafien wrote:
I also find it strange tatters that you’re trying to defend Christianity while attacking Islam.

Neither are defendable, both have participated in the death and persecution of millions of people and both should be vehemently condemned and opposed at every turn.



Were have Christian been persecuting others in the name of there reilgon? the bible is,nt full of barbaric evil demands to kill all non-christians and treat women like cattle, christains have done bad things like all reilgons have but islam clearly sets it self part from all others in that they do not tolrate other reilgons and use violence to over come others, The christians did,nt sweep across europe rasing citys and towns that would not follow jesus the roman empire was,nt forced to convert to christanty unlike what the muslims did in the east, it all comes down to basic foundation of islam which is war conquest and in-tolrance and this has,nt changed in the last 1600 years.




All reilgon is bad and prevents progress in differnt ways but islam is the big nasty one that does alot of damge and is the biggest threat to the modern world, christanty is no threat as our culture/society/law/customs are already chirstian ones plus hardly any one follows it theses days. it could even be said that the christains should be thanked for resisting islam and keeping europe free, do you really want to live in an 7th century islamic world?
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 03:40 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree Christianity has evolved while Islam has not(how the fuck do you change the word of god anyway?) but if we’re going on track record.

tatters wrote:
Were have Christian been persecuting others in the name of there reilgon?


Quote:
E22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.


Thousands died because of this little line.

Quote:
E31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


Thankfully this one has been ignored for a long time.

Let's also not forget NI and the conflict of differing versions of Christianity.

How many millions die because of the church's condemnation of condom's to this day? How many died in the inquisitions? Or the persecution of pagans in the Roman Empire during 379AD? Or the pagan's across Europe that were murdered? What about the 20 year campaign against the Cathars of Languedoc?

I could go on...

Now don't get me wrong, as I’ve stated many times before I hate all religions and feel they should all be opposed at every turn but you seem to be trying to justify Christianity while condemning Islam when both are just as bad as each other only in differing ways.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
tatters wrote:


Were have Christian been persecuting others in the name of there reilgon?


spanish inquisition was done in the name of religion.
a lot of colonialism was done in the name of religion and this often involved killing natives who wouldnt convert to christianity

a lot of slavery was justified in the name of religion either that black people werent people at all and didnt have souls, or that getting them to live like christians would save their souls.

If you are fighting to save souls you can justify all sorts of apparently horrible things that you couldnt justify otherwise.

Have you ever heard of Richard the Lionheart and some of his novel ways of conducting warfare that seemed a tad extreme even to some on his side ?

from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_I_of_England

"Richard had kept two thousand six hundred Muslim prisoners as hostages against Saladin fulfilling all the terms of the surrender of the lands around Acre. Philip, before leaving, had entrusted his own prisoners to Conrad, but Richard had forced him to hand them over to him. Richard feared his forces being bottled up in Acre, as he believed his campaign could not advance with the prisoners in train. In a fit of impatience, he ordered all the prisoners killed."
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daz|n00by
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
All very nice colin but lets come back to this day and age shall we?

I dont see many conquests today in the name of christianity
maybe thats because we have learnt the error of our ways and have moved on from such things unlike islam and its followers who still live by laws made hundereds of years ago and still try to impose those belifs on others either by force or verbaly(usualy the first choice is actions before words).

So unless you can show me evidance of Christian enforcing their belifs in the same way as islam does i will keep my belifs.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 20:47 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
daz|n00by wrote:

I dont see many conquests today in the name of christianity

Iraq was invaded in the name of christianity, as, I expect was Afghanistan.

Plenty of christians try to enforce old 'laws' onto others physically - see the 'Pro Life' movement in the US.
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daz|n00by
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
daz|n00by wrote:

I dont see many conquests today in the name of christianity

Iraq was invaded in the name of christianity, as, I expect was Afghanistan.

Plenty of christians try to enforce old 'laws' onto others physically - see the 'Pro Life' movement in the US.


Did the USA and Britan go there and say you must ober the laws of christians then? did they go there saying we are doing this to inforce our belifs on others?
Are they still there building churchs and forcing the people to change all there ways of life and belifs to reform to chrisianaty?

I,m sorry G but i thought we was talking about England, as i live in England and want it to stay basicaly English unlike others on here who are willing to see it change and cant see the truth for the shit infront of there eyes.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 21:02 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, the US just went there attacking an Islamic country in the name of a Christian God.

I thought we were talking christianity. I did have a quick look to try and find some sources relating to Christian Mission trying to force others to change faith, but failed.

I find myself much more hassled by christians than by Muslims. Infact I'm pretty sure my life in the UK has never been impacted by Muslim beliefs, while I've found plenty of instances where it has by Christian beliefs.

Got any evidence of Muslims trying to enforce their beliefs in England? What I see is white tabloid reading 'people' who are trying to be politically correct and not offend people of other religions; maybe because they expect trouble from the tabloid attitude of the country, trying to find fault where ever there's a story.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
initially bush did bill it as a was against Islam until some people pointed out that might annoy the muslims who were on his side Smile

most americans would still say its a war against muslims tho and so would some brits apparently

its easier to go off and kill people if its them and us

us the christians(good), them the muslims (bad)

generally i would say not much bad is done in the name of christianity these days as i dont really count bush's war mongering. In the past there has certainly been a lot of killing done in the name of jesus tho, and thats what tatters was talking about, the past.
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Last edited by colin1 on 21:10 - 15 Jul 2006; edited 1 time in total
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tatters
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
colin1 wrote:


spanish inquisition was done in the name of religion.


Ah bringing up the "black legend" are we, Protestant propaganda against the cathloics.



colin1 wrote:

a lot of colonialism was done in the name of religion and this often involved killing natives who wouldnt convert to christianity



More bollocks, colonization has nothing to do with reilgon countrys are colonized for expanding territories and to gain resources. and natives killed were those who did not sumit to being invaded.


colin1 wrote:

a lot of slavery was justified in the name of religion either that black people werent people at all and didnt have souls, or that getting them to live like christians would save their souls.



Slavery is about money not reilgion, slavery in europe disapeared with the christianty becoming the major reilgion because slavery of men is not allow when christanty teachs that "all men are equal", blacks were taken as slaves from the early 1700 to the early 1800,s here because they were not seen at that point as not men which had nothing to do with reilgon just socity at that time.



colin1 wrote:

If you are fighting to save souls you can justify all sorts of apparently horrible things that you couldnt justify otherwise.


People use reilgon to justify the bad things they do to cover there arse

I remeber someone talking about the german wehrmacht belt buckles worn by soldiers in the 2nd world war which has "Gott Mit Uns (God With Us)" around the out side, he said there was an old saying of "beware those whos do things in name of god"





colin1 wrote:

Have you ever heard of Richard the Lionheart and some of his novel ways of conducting warfare that seemed a tad extreme even to some on his side ?

from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_I_of_England

"Richard had kept two thousand six hundred Muslim prisoners as hostages against Saladin fulfilling all the terms of the surrender of the lands around Acre. Philip, before leaving, had entrusted his own prisoners to Conrad, but Richard had forced him to hand them over to him. Richard feared his forces being bottled up in Acre, as he believed his campaign could not advance with the prisoners in train. In a fit of impatience, he ordered all the prisoners killed."



Theres nothing wrong with that, thats how warfare was conducted in thoses times, if prisoners posed a risk or would cause to much troble to transport they would be killed the same was done by the romans who took slaves after a battle which could be sold for great profit but the lives of the soliders or that of the campian is more important than money or doing the right thing.




wikipedia is a bad site for alot of historcal facts as it can be very byist, which does,nt help with some of the crap you think up colin.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
i may disagree with you and you may disagree with me, but i didnt say you come up with crap so dont be rude.

You dont even know how to spell biased so I dont really think you have a clue.

You think wikipedia is biased but you prefer to get your information from.

Vin wrote:
From crisismagazine.com (American)
The mission of CRISIS Magazine is to interpret and shape the direction of contemporary culture from a standpoint of Catholic tradition. We are dedicated to the proposition that the crisis of modernity can be answered by a Christian humanism rooted in the teachings of the Catholic Church. We bring the wisdom of the Catholic tradition into direct dialogue with contemporary politics and culture.
Bizarre website mate Laughing
EDIT
And as for this from freerepublic.com
Welcome to Free Republic!
Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!
Rolling Eyes


do you really believe the spanish inquisition never happened ?

tatters wrote:
colin1 wrote:


spanish inquisition was done in the name of religion.


Ah bringing up the "black legend" are we, Protestant propaganda against the cathloics.


next you will be telling us that the holocaust is all jewish propaganda against those poor innocent nazis

protestants are civilized christians that evolved. muslims at the moment may be a bit more like the catholics at the moment.

if we are gonna turn this into protestants vs catholics, that pope is an idiot who increases AIDS deaths by condemning condoms. nutter
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tatters
Exxon Valdez



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PostPosted: 21:20 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
No, the US just went there attacking an Islamic country in the name of a Christian God.


Any proof of this G or is this more bollocks

G wrote:

I thought we were talking christianity. I did have a quick look to try and find some sources relating to Christian Mission trying to force others to change faith, but failed.


Because they dont force people.


G wrote:

I find myself much more hassled by christians than by Muslims. Infact I'm pretty sure my life in the UK has never been impacted by Muslim beliefs, while I've found plenty of instances wh ere it has by Christian beliefs.


How do christain beilfes afffect you? do like buggering little boys rapping women or stealing things because the christain culture and law of this countrys makes them illegal, or do get pissed off with christians coming across as "too nice and conservtive"

G wrote:

Got any evidence of Muslims trying to enforce their beliefs in England? What I see is white tabloid reading 'people' who are trying to be politically correct and not offend people of other religions; maybe because they expect trouble from the tabloid attitude of the country, trying to find fault where ever there's a story.


What about the large number of muslims that want sharia law in the UK and have already force some fast food companys and the british army to use halal meat or the musilm groups that are trying to make britain an islamic state.
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tatters
Exxon Valdez



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PostPosted: 21:39 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
colin1 wrote:
i may disagree with you and you may disagree with me, but i didnt say you come up with crap so dont be rude.

You dont even know how to spell biased so I dont really think you have a clue.



Is spelling like the padock oprating bollocks you were on about before? you come across as a simpleton on these forums colin and have had the piss taken out of you a number of times for commenting on subjects you have a lack of knowledge about.

colin1 wrote:

You think wikipedia is biased but you prefer to get your information from.

Vin wrote:
From crisismagazine.com (American)
The mission of CRISIS Magazine is to interpret and shape the direction of contemporary culture from a standpoint of Catholic tradition. We are dedicated to the proposition that the crisis of modernity can be answered by a Christian humanism rooted in the teachings of the Catholic Church. We bring the wisdom of the Catholic tradition into direct dialogue with contemporary politics and culture.
Bizarre website mate Laughing
EDIT
And as for this from freerepublic.com
Welcome to Free Republic!
Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!
Rolling Eyes





They were two sites that hosted the articles and the information within those articles can be back up with other sources as the content is know fact.


colin1 wrote:


do you really believe the spanish inquisition never happened ?

tatters wrote:
colin1 wrote:


spanish inquisition was done in the name of religion.


Ah bringing up the "black legend" are we, Protestant propaganda against the cathloics.


next you will be telling us that the holocaust is all jewish propaganda against those poor innocent nazis

protestants are civilized christians that evolved. muslims at the moment may be a bit more like the catholics at the moment.

if we are gonna turn this into protestants vs catholics, that pope is an idiot who increases AIDS deaths by condemning condoms. nutter


I did,nt say it did,nt happen but the numbers of those killed and the torturing were made up by the protestants and to scare childern, records of the time show that 3000 to 5000 people died during the Inquisition's 350 year history compared to the 150,000 documented witch burnings elsewhere in Europe over the same time which is a small figure.
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
tatters wrote:
How do christain beilfes afffect you?


I never had a Muslim come to my door and try so hard to 'convert' me, I have Christians and they don't stop no matter how much I tell them I’ve renounced the holy spirit so no matter how much they try to convert me the bible says I’m fucked anyway.

tatters wrote:
do like buggering little boys


Did you just decided to go to sleep during the many cases of sexual abuse by priests?

tatters wrote:
What about the large number of muslims that want sharia law in the UK


The key in that is 'want' I don't see it being forced on anyone yet.

During your uninformed vitriol against Islam and relative praise of Christianity you've still failed to address the answer to your question of Christian persecution.

You seem to be under the illusion that the witch hunts and inquisition never happened unfortunately for you it's a well documented fact. You've also totally avoided the issues of Christians murdering pagans indiscriminately or Languedoc.

Quote:
I dont see many conquests today in the name of christianity


Funny, george bush is very vocal in his affirmation of god being on his side for all the war's he's caused.

Does it not count unless it's purely in the name of Christianity or Islam? If so I’d like a present day example of Islamic invasion in the name of Allah?
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 22:07 - 15 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quickly - have a look for the speeches when Bush was first declaring war on Iraq - was definitely doing it 'for god' etc.

There have definitely been cases of 'christians' withholding medical treatment etc to those that will not convert.

Christian beliefs limit what I can do on Sundays, shout at me on Street cornrers, try and 'convert' me personally, etc, etc.
There has been plenty of cases of christian ministers being found out to have been buggering children. Although I believe it's mostly sorted now, the situation with a lot of the catholic church in Ireland and child abuse twenty years ago was absolutely disgusting.

The 'large number' of muslims that want their law in the UK I haven't seen any of nor has effected me.
Personally, I would have thought the requirements for fast food companies to use Halal meet was more of a comercial one - and the British Army is happy to cope with other Religions, so why not this one if they want the people to fight for their country?


There are also groups trying to impose a lot more serious christian rules on England. I take them as seriously as the Islamic ones.
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Vin
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 17 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Didn't Blair say something puerile about God being his judge when he was asked to justify the Iraq war.
Oh goody I found it
https://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article349125.ece
Yes yes I know its a lefty pinko, bleeding heart liberal, gayboy propaganda website Rolling Eyes
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WishayKillie
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 18 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
The 'large number' of muslims that want their law in the UK I haven't seen any of nor has effected me.


https://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/cartoon-protest8.jpg

https://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/cartoon-protest6.jpg

Rolling Eyes
I honestly think evolution skipped a beat with these backward hate mongerers. If they want their Shiite law and to live in an islamic state the f**k off to the back water that is the middle east. This IS a Christian country so integrate, live by our rules, contribute to socity or piss off back in the lorry you arrived here in!!
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 09:32 - 18 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
WishayKillie wrote:

I honestly think evolution skipped a beat with these backward hate mongerers.

A few trouble makers on TV?
Look at what happened to the 'reclaim the streets' movement - what started as peaceful protest was taken over by serious violence.
Did this mean that the reclaim the streets supporters were all violent arsehole? - I'd say no.
Compared to the number of Muslims in the country, it was avery, very small number seen making trouble.

Quote:
If they want their Shiite law and to live in an islamic state the f**k off to the back water that is the middle east. This IS a Christian country so integrate, live by our rules, contribute to socity or piss off back in the lorry you arrived here in!!

Saying this is a christian country would suggest the majority of people are christians; I'd say a lot more people follow football relegiously than christianity.
Most Muslims in this country do live by our rules.


The people pictured above seem to have very similar views to those on here that have said "I think we should kill them all", seems that it's Human Nature to be an arse hole, not race or religion specific.
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damnas
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 18 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are - as seen in the pics above, those muslims who wish to 'exterminate those who wish to insult islam', and while some of you, me included, would be happy to see these people punished, would you feel the same about the NF?

I know plenty of muslims, some teachers, mechanics, students, IT technicians, and they're not planning on killing us all at any stage in their life, they're all against fanatical views that are coming from the muslim camp, but I'm sure if they were to stumble apon this post, they would be so hurt and upset it would be obscene, let alone put them off biking! Wink

I personally think it's a ridiculous idea having a muslim only day, but is there REAAAAALLY a need for some of the racism that's being thrown about??
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The last post was made 17 years, 303 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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