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Dan 4RR
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 06 Nov 2006    Post subject: Green taxes. Reply with quote

How will taxing someone actually stop pollution, it just seems that whenever their is a problem within the UK, the first and only answer the goverment seems to come up with is taxing the hard working people back into the stone age. Fuckers Mad Thumbs Down
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

CARBON TAX will work.
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zaknafien




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PostPosted: 01:00 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: Green taxes. Reply with quote

VivaCity wrote:
How will taxing someone actually stop pollution, it just seems that whenever their is a problem within the UK, the first and only answer the goverment seems to come up with is taxing the hard working people back into the stone age. Fuckers Mad Thumbs Down


Simple really, rather than provide viable alternatives just tax the general populace so much they can't afford anything that pollutes. It's win win for the government, they get the emissions down as well as a big fat wedge to spend on more gourmet dinners.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

they got it wrong though , it'll generate tons of £££££ for the first few years , the government will get used to the income and everybody will switch to something else , at which their revenue falls at which new taxes will come in,

same happened with petrol tax , petrol tax went up and up so people bought 30mph cars then 40mpg then 50mph then diesel , this affected the revenue.

its all BS though as said UK = 2% of carbon in the world China is building a coal fired powerstation like Drax every 3 days , if we cut our emissions to nil makes zero difference ,

these taxes are designed to fill Gordon's 48 bn black hole , yes you read it right 48bn , if you include the illegal accounting methods which put things off balance sheet that would get any accountant sued fired and lose his/her charter its more like 125bn.
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byke95
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: Green taxes. Reply with quote

zaknafien wrote:
Simple really, rather than provide viable alternatives just tax the general populace so much they can't afford anything that pollutes. It's win win for the government, they get the emissions down as well as a big fat wedge to spend on more gourmet dinners.


Agreed. I always picture 'politician school' to be like the episode of the Simpsons where Homer goes to Monorail school:

"Good Morning class, welcome to your intensive 'how to be a politician' course.

One, if you want behaviour to change, tax people. We've done it for years so why change? Two, only change policy in a knee jerk reaction to the media. Three, in times of political crisis, don't forget to have a picture taken of you with your jacket off and your shirt sleeves rolled up.

This concludes your intensive training."
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Dan 4RR
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
its all BS though as said UK = 2% of carbon in the world China is building a coal fired powerstation like Drax every 3 days , if we cut our emissions to nil makes zero difference
Hmmm, interesting you should mention the 2% part, because I'm sure I heard on the news that the UK does twice as much as any other European country to combat pollution, and then there is the problem of the US & China Confused Almost seems like British people are been punishsed for it, via taxes and such like.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Depends when you choose as your starting point.

The UK makes itself look quite good by having shut down the coal mining industry and mainly gone for gas powered power stations.

What they tend to keep quiet about is how little CO2 is actually man made compared to how much occurs naturally.

All the best

Keith
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Depends when you choose as your starting point.

The UK makes itself look quite good by having shut down the coal mining industry and mainly gone for gas powered power stations.

What they tend to keep quiet about is how little CO2 is actually man made compared to how much occurs naturally.

All the best

Keith


The natural stuff doesn't tend to get spewed by the million tonnes out into the stratoshpere by intercontinental jet travel though. I can't help thinking that a lot of the CO2 produced by nature won't rise very high, being both heavier and pretty much as cold as it's environment.

It's methane which is the real killer, and between termites and cows farting, there's not a lot we can do about that, other than capture that released from landfill sites and stop laying waste to forests and leaving them to rot.

I doubt a tax on private individuals would achieve very much though, industry pollutes far more but has the governments ear with their money. The sort of thing which makes me angry is when people start talking about banning bonfires and fireworks for environmental reasons... Brick Wall
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Seems aviation is responsible for 2% of global CO2 (presume that is 2% of man made CO2).

Methane levels are, if anything, rising faster than CO2 levels. If we stopped eating so many cows then there might be less of them being bred and farting in fields.

All the best

Keith
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Seems aviation is responsible for 2% of global CO2 (presume that is 2% of man made CO2).

Methane levels are, if anything, rising faster than CO2 levels. If we stopped eating so many cows then there might be less of them being bred and farting in fields.

All the best

Keith
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gavin
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
If we stopped eating so many cows then there might be less of them being bred and farting in fields.




cattle produce methane which is something like seven (7) times more contributary to global warming than CO2.

given that the average cow produces as much harmful gas in its lifetime as the average car, everything we are being told by government about global warming is a lie.

its not the car, or the plane, thats to blame. its human activity, per se that is the root of the problem.

if we stopped all industrial and commercial activity that is claimed to contribute to global warming tomorrow, we'd still be fucked, global warming would still continue, theres a hell of an amount of hysterysis in the cycle.

.....and if we stopped all that....how would we eat? everything we eat, even fresh fruit and meat is industrialized, mechanized, processed and distributed.....modern society is a house of cards, and when it falls down, its going to be very ugly indeed.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Methane is well over 20 times more potent than CO2, but is in far smaller volumes (about 1700ppb for methane as opposed to about 380ppm for CO2). So CO2 has about 220 times the effect once volume is taken account of.

Water vapour is the most important greenhouse gas.

But then if we started eating more veg, we might land up producing rather more methane Laughing .

All the best

Keith
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gavin
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 07 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup...i posted some stats a while back...its around 25 times.....dunno where i got 7 times from......my memory must be going.... Rolling Eyes
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 08 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

gavin wrote:
yup...i posted some stats a while back...its around 25 times.....dunno where i got 7 times from......my memory must be going.... Rolling Eyes


Thats the 2 stroke fumes. But they smell so good.

All the best

Keith
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