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Bad Driving

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Walloper
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 13 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Walloper wrote:
Yes the impact speed is a factor.
But this is still a function of overall stopping distance and rates of deceleration from initial speed. (The clock starts when you see the 'thing'.)


Nope. The clock starts when the situation could have been identified. Force people to drive more slowly and that time will be later.

You might claim that making less stimulating should not do this, but it does and is one reason why aircraft makers have started to reduce the amount of automation.

All the best

Keith



I don't follow.
I meant you take evasive action as soon as you recognise the danger. Actually once you have computed and told your body to move. (The 9 mtrs after interpretation.)

Creature comforts should be ripped out of cars. Twisted Evil
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 13 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
I don't follow.
I meant you take evasive action as soon as you recognise the danger. Actually once you have computed and told your body to move. (The 9 mtrs after interpretation.)


Point being if you were more awake you would recognise the danger sooner. At 30mph (for example) you are doing ~13m/s. A 1 second delay in recognising the danger increases the total stopping distance to the same as someone awake doing 40mph (based on Highway Code figures).

All the best

Keith
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 14 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
"I was driving too slow to pay attention your Honour."
If I were to use that line in court I would get off with causing an accident?
You are not meant to drive in the first place if you feel tired or drowsy. Laughing
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 14 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
"I was driving too slow to pay attention your Honour."
If I were to use that line in court I would get off with causing an accident?


Probably not, but courts do not live in the real world.

Walloper wrote:
You are not meant to drive in the first place if you feel tired or drowsy. Laughing


Never said anything about tired or drowsy. It is basic human nature. You cannot avoid it. Lack of stimulation means the mind wanders. It happens to you, whether you admit it or not. Average human concentration span is about 20 minutes.

All the best

Keith
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 14 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
On that theory of stimulation by effects of speed.
Once you reach 40 mph you lose the stimulus through laws of diminishing returns.
And we're back to needing another injection of speed.
That would be a little like relying on instinct to control actions rather than conscious thought and good judgement.

I have a theory that the faster I drive my bike the harder I will hit something if I make a mistake (immovable knowing my luck).
So I pick where to go fast. How many people really think before banging the throttle off the stops?
Is that good driving or self control?
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Kickstart
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 14 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
Once you reach 40 mph you lose the stimulus through laws of diminishing returns.


Totally depends on the situation. 40mph could be frightengly fast, or mind numbingly boring.

Walloper wrote:
That would be a little like relying on instinct to control actions rather than conscious thought and good judgement.


Not really, only in so far that you could force people to drive far more slowly so that they can have a nap while driving more safely!

Walloper wrote:
I have a theory that the faster I drive my bike the harder I will hit something if I make a mistake (immovable knowing my luck).


Very true, but if the speed you are riding at is one that is natural for you then you will be less likely to make the mistake.

Walloper wrote:
So I pick where to go fast. How many people really think before banging the throttle off the stops?


Big difference between thrashing the knackers off the engine and going at a comfortable speed.

All the best

Keith
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mchaggis
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Joined: 10 May 2004
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 14 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remember an interesting snippet on the Survival Skills website:

Quote:
Overconfidence can also get you into trouble through complacency. You may be riding along, well within the limits of your own skills and the machine, but with a sense that nothing can go wrong because you are riding so slowly (at least - what seems slowly to you). In this state, you are highly at risk because you have mentally switched off. You are no longer concentrating or actively looking for danger.


https://www.survivalskills.clara.net/riding_skills_12.htm

Having some obvious risk will make you safer imo as you have to focus. When there's very little traffic, I (and I'm sure I'm hardly alone) tend to go to sleep to some degree. If I'm actually having to concentrate to avoid idiot drivers doing crazy things or pedestrians who think it's clever to cross urban dual carriageways when I'm approaching at the speed limit, then I pick up all sorts of things and tend to be much more observant.

Bimbling along at 35 in a 40 when there's no traffic really doesn't do much for me, I'm not in the 'zone'. In heavy traffic doing 40-45 in the same place makes me feel much more awake.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 15 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drive: to move or travel on land in a motor vehicle, especially as the person controlling the vehicle's movement.

Alert: quick to see, understand and act in a particular situation:

So we establish that 'most' people need the hunter's instinct for danger to remain excited and competently alert enough to drive.

I never realised our roads were quite so dangerous. Laughing

If you drive PROPERLY you should be involved in the situation.
Controling the vehicle and reading the situations around you should stop you day dreaming.

You really should stop when you find attention wandering.


"Everyone knows what attention is. It is the taking possession by the mind in clear and vivid form, of one out of what seem several simultaneously possible objects or trains of thought...It implies withdrawal from some things in order to deal effectively with others."

I know people drive without 100% focus. That is not the problem here.
The problem is we do not recognise the signs and that's when we can get things out of shape.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 15 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
So we establish that 'most' people need the hunter's instinct for danger to remain excited and competently alert enough to drive.


Maybe not that strong (doubt anyone could maintain that level of alertness for long without causing problems later on in the journey). But somewhere closer to that than the attention paid by someone on guard duty at a place nothing ever happens!

All the best

Keith
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drumwrecker
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Joined: 18 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 00:09 - 16 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: Bad Driving Reply with quote
feef wrote:
Walloper wrote:
"20 mph speed limit
A 20 mph well enforced speed limit in urban areas would do more to protect pedestrians and cyclists than any other measure. Regardless of fault, vulnerable road users would stand a chance of ending up in a cast instead of a coffin if impact speeds were reduced to a 'survivable speed'."


Isn't that what brakes are for?

It's an error made by the governments own adverts.. "if you hit me at 40 mph, I'll die, if you hit me at 30mph I'll live"

Surely if someone steps out in front of you, then you'll hit the brakes. This will reduce your speed to 30, from 40, pretty quickly.. if the gov are saying people are hitting kits at 40mph, then they were probably doing well in excess of 40 in the first place. They are missing a very subtle point.

Can imagine someone hitting a ped at 20mph, and not bothering to brake as much, cos they'll just bounce off, they'll live.

It's all about taking away decision making and control again. We need to take people who cannot make these decisions, who cannot control themselves or their vehicles, off the road: not force everyone to work at the lowest common level.

a

I watched a programme on Men & Motors a while back about speeders attending a police station for a lecture on safety in return for not getting points on their licence.
A dummy was placed on a crossing and a car positioned on the road a distance away.
The policeman said that if the car was doing 30 mph and braked at that point he would stop in front of the dummy. But if the car was travelling at 40mph by the time it reached the dummy the car would still be doing 26 mph.
That had a great effect on me and my speed in built up areas.
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