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Resurrection
Ballast Boy
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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| cestrian |
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cestrian
World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 23:32 - 18 Feb 2007  Post subject: |
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Here we go again 
I have not compared MrJames to a seventeen year old. I stated that he (or rather his argumentative style) reminded me of my seventeen year old step-son.
You typed - "Also you say to make a judgement about somebody you know nothing about isn't on, Well you have just done the same thing have you not?? !
Please quote the words which demonstrate that I have made a judgement about MrJames.
Regards`
Gordon
Edited to add.....You also mentioned my apparent confrontational manner. Thanking him for his advice and including the words "with respect" demonstrates anything but a confrontation manner.
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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| Posted: 02:18 - 19 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| cestrian wrote: | James, thank you for your advice, however misplaced.
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It was not advice, it was my opinion.
At no point did I make suggestions to you, I simply 'called it how I saw it'.
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The vast majority of what I typed is fact.
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The vast majority is no doubt what you believe to be fact. It is no doubt becoming increasingly obvious that I do not share this belief.
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The only thoughts open to critique were, "I hope it never comes to this, but I foresee a revolution on the horizon. Certain areas of this country may become 'no go' areas and it needn't be that way, if we act soon" |
All thoughts are open to critique, and all 'facts' are open to debate and interpretation.
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And with some respect,
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| Quote: | including the words "with respect" demonstrates anything but a confrontation manner
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I seem to recall a post in which you mentioned prior service in the forces. As I'm sure you will recall, junior officers dreaded hearing the magic prefix "With all due respect Sir...." as it was invariably followed by an eloquent description of the junior officer's manifold failings. 
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you remind me of my seventeen year old step-son. He too will argue his point just for the sake of it, even when there is precious little (or nothing) to argue about.
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..nothing, that is, apart from the fact I disagree with your position and dispute your 'facts' - something I am still allowed to do (just) in this beloved country of mine.
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And as usual, he knows everything too. I expect he will have grown out of it before he reaches the age of 18.
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Unfortunately for everyone around me, I am 27 and yet to show any signs of growing out of knowing everything.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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| fenton |
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fenton
World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 May 2006
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Posted: 03:16 - 19 Feb 2007  Post subject: |
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For every foreign sponging bastard, there is a white sponging bastard robbing your TV.
It will get to the point of a "skin war" if things are not sorted... The government in this country are far too leniant, Consider the amount of shit that we put up from people in this counrty, Compared to saudi or another middle eastern country is fucking ridiculous...
Im sorry for interupting your little battle of the theosauruses, do carry on.
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| cestrian |
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cestrian
World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 09:34 - 19 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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Here we go again Argument for the sake of it.
Fenton, I concur. |
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| killa |
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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: 09:45 - 19 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| cestrian wrote: | Mister James, no I am not a BNP supporter. Why one earth would I socialise with Indians and good Muslims if I was. |
Cestrian, you’ve entered the debate pit of no return.
If you have some facts, and then use them in the debate, he says they are most probably lies. Oh and in this case you think like a Nazi skin head.
If you have thrown your opinion into the debate, fact or fiction, you’re on the loosing side. In your opinion there are a growing number of extreme views within Muslim communities that at some point will greatly affect our everyday living.
Do I take it Mr James that when you say….
| Mister James wrote: | I fail to see how any of the apocryphal comments above are 'news', I'm sure many of us have encountered people with similar opinions - as well as opinions diametrically opposed to it. The addition of attempts to increase the sources' validity by stressing their non-WASP origins simply raises suspicions that they are manufactured events to support your argument. |
Does this mean then that the growing number of them is of no concern?
I really don’t see where you’re heading in your post, all you seem to be getting at, again, is that because you work in the Justice system with immigrants you don’t believe that anything mentioned above is worth saying because nothing as yet has concrete evidence.
What would change your mind?
Cestrian has said that some of his ethnic friends mentioned it, you say he’s telling porkies.
When I mentioned my sisters situation, did you think that was lies to?
I mean, I love my sister dearly, and I hate everything Islam stands for…......I know what it’s about. Oh and before you mention them, I couldn’t give a fuck about the ones who are keeping their heads down, it’s like mentioning the French in the World War 2.
| Mister James wrote: | None of that excuses sloppy debate that at best is factually-deprived, and at worst is a deliberate and deceitful attempt to stir up blind hatred towards what is a very complex and fractured element in our society. |
Cestrian mentions the ever increasing hatred towards us Westerners, what isn’t ‘news’ to us, is that, in a way, they have every right to hate us after what we’ve let our governments get away with. New generations of Muslims and the older ones have taken on this ideology, that is not factually deprived, its happening.
| Mister James wrote: | There are plenty of obnoxious Muslims out there, a tiny minority of whom are a direct threat to our society. There are huge concerns about integration into our society and our rules, as well as security and cultural problems. |
The hatred is there on both sides James, fact, it is increasing all of the time, fact, you said it yourself, there are those that would love to bring Britain to its knees. The under cover reporters in the mosques was enough to solidify the fact that these idiots are trying to breed hatred and change communities to suit them. How many deaths, scares, security breaches and threats will it take to stop calling them a minority?
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Mister James
I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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| Posted: 23:42 - 19 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| cestrian wrote: | Here we go again Argument for the sake of it.
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I've been quite specific about what I disagree with in your posts, and I have yet to have a response apart from faux world-weariness that has achieved nothing aside from recruiting the debating genius that is 'Killa'.
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Cestrian, you’ve entered the debate pit of no return.
If you have some facts, and then use them in the debate, he says they are most probably lies. Oh and in this case you think like a Nazi skin head.
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He stated some things he believed to be true, I disagreed with them. Guess what 'Killa'? Even I'm allowed to have an opinion!
I didn't call him a Nazi, a skin head, or even a BNP supporter - I asked him if he supported the BNP because his anecdotes match closely those bandied about by our nationalist friends.
Oh, and at no point did I call them lies - but thanks for taking the time to speak for me, even though you are once again totally wrong.
| Quote: | I really don’t see where you’re heading in your post, |
No surprise there then.
| Quote: | all you seem to be getting at, again, is that because you work in the Justice system with immigrants you don’t believe that anything mentioned above is worth saying because nothing as yet has concrete evidence.
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At no time did I mention my job, or indeed even employ any of the insight I occasionally glean from it. It is you who seem so obsessed with your lack of experience in this field that you constantly bring it up.
Edit: Flicking through the thread again, it appears I did mention my job, albeit to agree with some of what Cestrian was concerned about - even I make mistakes, who'd have thunk it!? Still, the spirit of my comment stands, as I was not using my experience as a way to 'veto' Cestrian's opinion, as suggested by you
I specifically referred to statements of Cestrian's that related to the untold wealth and riches that 'immigrants' are being lavished with by 'the government', and pointed out factual inaccuracies that are widely available in the public domain.
As to concrete evidence, while one is entitled to hold an opinion without such supporting evidence, one cannot expect people who disagree with you to quietly submit. Cestrian is entitled to his opinion, I am entitled to disagree.
Once again 'Killa', you tag along on someone's coat-tails and try to make me look small, while adding nothing of substance to the debate.
I am probably one of the most negative people on this forum when it comes to the subject of Immigration and Asylum, I just don't like sloppy debate and factual inaccuracies - which is probably why I disagree with you so much.
| Quote: | I couldn’t give a fuck about the ones who are keeping their heads down, it’s like mentioning the French in the World War 2
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Many Frenchmen collaborated with the Nazis, ran a vicious regime in their African colonies, and helped in the genocide of French Jews. Others in the Free French forces fought bravely on several fronts, helping the allies attain victory.
Not what I consider keeping your head down - once again, your casual stereotyping and lack of knowledge shines through.
| Quote: | The hatred is there on both sides James, fact, it is increasing all of the time, fact, you said it yourself, there are those that would love to bring Britain to its knees. The under cover reporters in the mosques was enough to solidify the fact that these idiots are trying to breed hatred and change communities to suit them. How many deaths, scares, security breaches and threats will it take to stop calling them a minority?
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Them being a majority will be what it takes to stop calling them a minority. That's simple English 'Killa', you should be able to manage that.
I dislike many aspects of what I perceive to be the wider muslim community in this country and throughout the world - just as I have little time for black youths who kiss their teeth and dress like American convicts, or white boys from Cheltenham who freestyle.
Even I'm not bigoted enough to assume that everything I don't like is intrinsically bad.
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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: 09:05 - 20 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: | I have yet to have a response apart from faux world-weariness that has achieved nothing aside from recruiting the debating genius that is 'Killa'. |
What would you consider yourself then, just as I said? Posting replies that try to deem any debate with you pointless?
Your posts don’t show much of your knowledge on immigration, your posts seem to just make the other poster defend all of the time, no space for debate it’s either your way or the highway.
| Mister James wrote: | He stated some things he believed to be true, I disagreed with them. Guess what 'Killa'? Even I'm allowed to have an opinion! |
Hey, I’m not on this guys coat tails, I think what he’s posted is a bit, lacking, in something, not facts, just something worth debating.
As you said, “it’s not news”, and when you say that, you’re referring to the……
| Mister James wrote: | Obnoxious Muslims out there, a tiny minority of whom are a direct threat to our society. There are huge concerns about integration into our society and our rules, as well as security and cultural problems. |
This is basically what Cestrian was talking about.
Yes Muslims communities are ever increasing in numbers, mosques popping up everywhere, and there is, without any questionable doubt an increase in anti western ideology.
That is fact, the rest of it is opinions, and you’re putting across yours which is fine.
| Mister James wrote: | I suspect I see many of the same reports, and probably get just as angry as the next man. I just don't believe that you are presenting it in either a fair or measured manner. |
How can you be fair and measured in this debate, IYO, you seem to be the one holding all the cards, this will never be fair.
Let’s just say that he does know the people mentioned in his post, they’ve expressed their views and he’s expressed his. Is that fair?
| Mister James wrote: | I asked him if he supported the BNP because his anecdotes match closely those bandied about by our nationalist friends. |
Oh, obviously not, just ask him if he’s a member of the BNP, that’s surely going to keep this debate in check.
Nothing personal Cestrian…….WTF do you expect Mr James, you’re called up on this shit time and time again, you have a distinct lack of manners and come across as an arrogant fuck in almost any debate. And don’t try and bullshit me with “Yeah but like, I’d say it to his face innit” because if you did, you’re a complete twat.
| Mister James wrote: | Oh, and at no point did I call them lies - but thanks for taking the time to speak for me, even though you are once again totally wrong. |
| Mister James wrote: | The addition of attempts to increase the sources' validity by stressing their non-WASP origins simply raises suspicions that they are manufactured events to support your argument. |
Cestrians bullshitting?
| Quote: | I really don’t see where you’re heading in your post, |
| Mister James wrote: | No surprise there then. |
I think it’s because you didn’t go anywhere with your post.
| Mister James wrote: | Once again 'Killa', you tag along on someone's coat-tails and try to make me look small, while adding nothing of substance to the debate. |
I’m on no one’s side here, I agree with some of Cestrians post, not all of it, I don’t think they are given riches, as you put it.
I don’t think asking him if he is a member of the BNP was called for.
My brother in law is a Muslim, it has rubbed off on my sister somewhat. The things that I’ve mentioned you’ve avoided answering..……if you can reply and perhaps express your opinion on what I said, without getting personal, bitchy and or abusive, then go ahead.
| Mister James wrote: | I just don't like sloppy debate and factual inaccuracies - which is probably why I disagree with you so much. |
Ok, that wasn’t that well thought out was it..……point out where I’m lying then dick head.
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techierob
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Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Mister James
I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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| Posted: 21:09 - 20 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| killa wrote: | | Mister James wrote: | I have yet to have a response apart from faux world-weariness that has achieved nothing aside from recruiting the debating genius that is 'Killa'. |
What would you consider yourself then, just as I said? Posting replies that try to deem any debate with you pointless?
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For the (seemingly) umpteenth time, I was very specific as to where I disagreed with Cestrian, and neither you nor he have attempted to address my challenges to his comments.
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Your posts don’t show much of your knowledge on immigration, your posts seem to just make the other poster defend all of the time, no space for debate it’s either your way or the highway.
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No 'Killa', they seem to just make you defend yourself all the time, as you continually choose to ignore the actual meat of the topic in question.
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Hey, I’m not on this guys coat tails, I think what he’s posted is a bit, lacking, in something, not facts, just something worth debating.
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I was debating it, by pointing out areas where I disagreed with him, and putting forward what I believed to be true in lieu of that.
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How can you be fair and measured in this debate, IYO, you seem to be the one holding all the cards, this will never be fair.
Let’s just say that he does know the people mentioned in his post, they’ve expressed their views and he’s expressed his. Is that fair?
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Ok 'Killa', if we're talking about fair, why is it that whenever I say I believe something, you whine about me 'holding all the cards', while other people are entitled to their opinions.
Cestrian obviously believes what he has written. I beg to differ with (clearly identified) parts of his original post. As we believe different things to be true, we cannot both be right. I 'know' I am correct, so what the hell am I supposed to say to a numpty like you? "Hey Mr 'Killa', maybe I should just pretend I don't know something just because you think I'm arrogant when I believe I'm right about something"?
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Oh, obviously not, just ask him if he’s a member of the BNP, that’s surely going to keep this debate in check.
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1) It was a serious question, his comments and anectdotes share striking similarities with those used in BNP literature when they are trying to appear reasonable. Several people on this site have indicated an interest in/support for the BNP, which remains a legal and legitimate political party. Why should it be offensive that I ask him that question? If this topic was about the Iraq War, he had a Peter Mandelson avatar, and his writings bore similarities to NL propaganda, I'd probably have asked if he was a card carrying member - it always helps to know where people are coming from when you are discussing something with them.
2) When were you elected the Arbitrator Of Questions People Are Allowed To Ask?
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WTF do you expect Mr James, you’re called up on this shit time and time again,
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Translation: You have thrown your toys out of your pram time and time again, because you are incapable of taking part in an adult debate.
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you have a distinct lack of manners and come across as an arrogant fuck in almost any debate. And don’t try and bullshit me with “Yeah but like, I’d say it to his face innit” because if you did, you’re a complete twat.
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Show me where I was rude? Where are these bad manners you constantly whine about?
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| Mister James wrote: | Oh, and at no point did I call them lies - but thanks for taking the time to speak for me, even though you are once again totally wrong. |
| Mister James wrote: | The addition of attempts to increase the sources' validity by stressing their non-WASP origins simply raises suspicions that they are manufactured events to support your argument. |
Cestrians bullshitting?
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What I said was quite clear.
I made no attempt to ascertain or judge whether I believed the stories to be true, I simply passed comment on the fact that the efforts to stress the PC'ness of the people involved made it look like the author was trying just a little too hard to hammer home his point. As mentioned later in the point, this observation was linked to my later question about the BNP.
| Quote: | I really don’t see where you’re heading in your post, |
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| Mister James wrote: | No surprise there then. |
I think it’s because you didn’t go anywhere with your post.
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No, it's because you are thick, and are too quick to whine about my 'arrogance' and 'bad manners', without EVER addressing the substance of my posts.
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I’m on no one’s side here, I agree with some of Cestrians post, not all of it, I don’t think they are given riches, as you put it.
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Not actually what I said, but at least now you are admitting that in fact I am probably right with at least some of what I say, thus am surely entitled to hold my own opinions, and *shock horror* to dispute things that I believe to be untrue!?
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I don’t think asking him if he is a member of the BNP was called for.
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Why not? Explain.
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My brother in law is a Muslim, it has rubbed off on my sister somewhat. The things that I’ve mentioned you’ve avoided answering..……if you can reply and perhaps express your opinion on what I said, without getting personal, bitchy and or abusive, then go ahead.
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You've mentioned your brother in law before, I've not commented because I don't have anything in particular to say about it. What part exactly would you like my opinion on?
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Ok, that wasn’t that well thought out was it..……point out where I’m lying then dick head. |
Good to know that you're taking the moral high ground on the whole 'bad manners' thing, 'dickhead'!
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cestrian
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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: 09:41 - 21 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: | For the (seemingly) umpteenth time, I was very specific as to where I disagreed with Cestrian, and neither you nor he have attempted to address my challenges to his comments. |
First off, if you’re going to whinge about people not answering your questions, use question marks.
Secondly, don’t think I’ve slipped into the old routine of throwing toys out of the pram, at this point you’ve shown nothing in the way of a debate here and if you’re still pondering why Cestrian has taken a certain tone with you, then it’s simply because from his point of view you’re calling him a liar.
You deserved the last comment I made about you, and no, it seems I’m not the only one who sees your posts for what they are.
You are specific in your posts Mr James you can’t even bring yourself to accept that I have answered and questioned your posts, I’ve agreed with you on some points, you couldn’t be a man about this if you tried, I don’t think you’ve bothered reading any of the posts properly anyway from this reply.
I have clearly pointed out that you called Cestrian a liar, did you not mean that?!
You said that he could quite possibly manufacture the conversation with his ethnic friends to give his theory on immigrants some meat.
| Mister James wrote: | No 'Killa', they seem to just make you defend yourself all the time, as you continually choose to ignore the actual meat of the topic in question. |
Ok, and at this point I’m going to ask you to stop babbling and give me this ‘meat’ you’re on about.
The topic was started by myself, so in keeping with that topic, explain to me why it is all this freedom of speech is being used by the Muslim clerics and why there are people in high places who support it.
As you said there are…
| Mister James wrote: | Obnoxious Muslims out there, a tiny minority of whom are a direct threat to our society. There are huge concerns about integration into our society and our rules, as well as security and cultural problems. |
They are growing in numbers, and believe me, when I speak of the hatred for these people, that’s what it is. Not every Tom, Dick, and Abu.
| Mister James wrote: | Ok 'Killa', if we're talking about fair, why is it that whenever I say I believe something, you whine about me 'holding all the cards', while other people are entitled to their opinions. |
It’s because you think everyone’s lying about what they’ve seen and heard James.
It’s hard trying to debate with someone when anything you say doesn’t mean anything to them.
| Mister James wrote: | Cestrian obviously believes what he has written. I beg to differ with (clearly identified) parts of his original post. As we believe different things to be true, we cannot both be right. I 'know' I am correct. |
Jesus Christ, I hadn’t read this before posting, it’s just made my efforts worthless.
| Mister James wrote: | You have thrown your toys out of your pram time and time again, because you are incapable of taking part in an adult debate. |
| Mister James wrote: | We cannot both be right. I 'know' I am correct. |
 this is gold, you’re a knob James fair play.
| Mister James wrote: | Show me where I was rude? Where are these bad manners you constantly whine about? |
| Mister James wrote: | It was a serious question, his comments and anecdotes share striking similarities with those used in BNP literature when they are trying to appear reasonable. Several people on this site have indicated an interest in/support for the BNP, which remains a legal and legitimate political party. Why should it be offensive that I ask him that question? |
Every time I’ve listened to what a BNP supporter has to say on immigration, and the country, it’s not good news James, like, really not.
When they’ve tried to sound reasonable, it comes across rather stupid.
Cestrian mentioned that his Ethnic friends believe there is a growing number of hate groups in Britain now, and you said to, that there is.
| Mister James wrote: | No, it's because you are thick, and are too quick to whine about my 'arrogance' and 'bad manners', without EVER addressing the substance of my posts. |
| Mister James wrote: | We cannot both be right. I 'know' I am correct. |
Ah,i see, i'm a thicko and you're always right.
Thanks Dad.
| Mister James wrote: | You've mentioned your brother in law before, I've not commented because I don't have anything in particular to say about it. What part exactly would you like my opinion on? |
It’s not going to be an opinion though is it James, if I say something my Muslim brother in law has done in the past, or doing now. You might call me a liar to, and I’m not going to stand for that.
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Phil_C
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Posted: 11:53 - 21 Feb 2007  Post subject: |
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I'm not going to enter any debate, just throw my coins in here. Criticise if you will, take apart what I've said as much as you like, but bear in mind I'm not a great discussionist or writer
I think we as a country are falling apart, there are too many immigrants, especially illegals, and our softly-softly approach to everything is frankly quite embarrassing. We should operate a zero tolerance policy as far as crime is concerned, specifically violence, theft and immigration.
When I was a kid in the 70's we could go out and play anywhere, leave our doors open, and everyone knew everyone. Now its totally the opposite. I couldn't bear trying to raise a child in this world we have now, with the planet the state its in, and the amount of crime that goes on. So much for progress. |
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Annabella
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Dalemac
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| Posted: 01:48 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| Harold_Shand wrote: | Sponging cunts that have found fame and attention. The dumb cunts and the even dumber fuckwitts that follow them will turn themselves inside out in a few years. When the shit hits the fan for them boys, and it's coming....
Bedworth (near Coventry):
Labour 658
BNP 546
Tory 301
LibDem 119
English Dem 75
Save NHS 43
UKIP 8 (eight!)
(BNP 31%, UKIP 0.45%)
...they will see, I think their perception of Britain is very different from the reality. |
you see, thats the sort of thing most people dont like, aggorance, no respect to the others in the community, and threatening.
you say its the minority, then start saying stuff like that? well....very cleaver.
Im no racist, i dont mind how many different skin colour or religions walk our streets, aslong as we can guarantee safety then i really dont care.
Also, im wondering how long it will before there is an anti white party in britain.
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cestrian
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Phil_C
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GodzGift
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| Posted: 17:42 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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what gets on my nerves is romanians,
These people invade your personal space, they are trying to rip you off, scam you, rob you, and generally be annoying.I have not seen people from any other country which have try directly to be this annoying.
I was walking to the train station and was approached by one of these romanians, and he pulled off his gold ring and started to chat some rubbish.
Wasnt hard to recognise this guy was romanian, he continued to annoy me and walk about 5 paces trying to see me this gold ring, and then tapped on my shoulder.
At this point, I lost it,
Turned to him and shouted some abusive remarks whilst pointing face to suggest unless he stopped i was going to cave his munchkin face in.Dont think he understood the exact words but knew he was very close to being smashed, and so turned around and walked off.
IM quite patient but the next time I am approached by these clowns I promised myself im going to floor him. And will do and take a quick picture, for your enjoyment, or not.
Enough is enough.
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killa
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| Posted: 08:57 - 23 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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The best is when you see them selling roses in towns near the clubs, and they try and give you those puppy dog eyes. 
"Fuck you......No"  
They understand those words.
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Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 17 years, 68 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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