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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 19:48 - 15 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
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Check out this KH!!!
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/DiggsUK/multiplekh250.jpg ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 19:49 - 15 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
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Jack_Cheese wrote: |
To be honest, i can only see one major downfall. Sure, the engine would burn less oil, be quieter and potentially be more reliable. But it would still need an expansion chamber to reduce emissions. The design of the 2-stroke engine means that the exhaust port is open while the piston is at the bottom of it's stroke, and inevitably some fuel will be lost through this gaping hole in the side of the bore.
another way round it would be to pressurise the mixture beyond atmospheric pressure using said supercharger, and inject it after the piston has gone past the exhaust port. There would be no increase in performance from this, but it would keep the engine clean and help the 2-stroke keep on living.
The thing is, new engines like this just aren't 2-strokes. A proper 2-stroke has an expansion chamber, burns gallons of oil, a powervalve blade in the exhaust and a full top-end rebuild can be done in under an hour. A new complex engine wouldn;t be the same, all the magic appeal of the 2-stroke would be lost.
Jack |
did you have a look at the page?
it runs with a standard exhaust system, with no need for an expansion chamber as it has a rotary valve system on it,
https://www.sixstroke.com/images/discvlv_ff.jpg ____________________ the humans are dead
I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham Super Spammer
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
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bish777 |
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bish777 World Chat Champion
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gazzabo |
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gazzabo Scooby Slapper
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Jack_Cheese |
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Jack_Cheese World Chat Champion
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Posted: 09:34 - 16 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
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lilredmachine |
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lilredmachine World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 10:13 - 16 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
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Quote: | If you have a 1000cc 2 stroke and a 1000cc 4 stroke, you could have the same power output and run the 2 stroke at much lower RPM-much lower wear on bearings. Also if you go the supercharged route you can use valvegear much like a 4 stroke (or the slave piston thing on the '6stroke' motor). Doing it that way means that there is no need for an expansion chamber.
I reckon a supercharged lower RPM stroke would be torquey, smooth and economical. |
so in an effort to make the 2 stroke more reliable and emissions friendly, you are going to take away everything that makes a 2 stroke a 2 stroke? you'll end up with something akin to a diesel to ride, with none of the excitement or aural appeal of an old school 2 stroke. And as jackcheese pointed out, you'll make them far more difficult to rebuild in the process.
just seems like people are so desperate to save 2 strokes they are prepared to do away with the characteristics that make them different to the superior 4 strokes we have now. what's the point?
the original point of the thread was why there are no big capacity two stroke bikes, and although no one has answered the question directly, reading through the thread does answer the question. the point of the big capacity hooners like the gixxer thou and the r1 is that they are exciting to ride, have high red lines and make a noise that makes the adrenaline flow. They aren't sold on economy or emissions results. i could imagine the tagline now, 'the new suzuki gtsv1000 2t, smoother, quieter, lower revving, a bit like a diseasal, you know you want one'. ____________________ Bikes: too many, too much for one man to maintain anyway.
Last edited by lilredmachine on 10:27 - 16 Jun 2007; edited 1 time in total |
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hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz Super Spammer
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Old Thread Alert!
There is a gap of 2 years, 181 days between these two posts... |
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tvr321 |
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tvr321 Nitrous Nuisance
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salty21 |
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salty21 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:17 - 13 Dec 2009 Post subject: |
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Flip |
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Flip Super Spammer
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Alexio |
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Alexio World Chat Champion
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LordShaftesbu... |
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LordShaftesbu... World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:48 - 14 Dec 2009 Post subject: |
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chris-red |
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chris-red Have you considered a TDM?
Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :
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ms51ves3 |
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ms51ves3 Super Spammer
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 16:08 - 14 Dec 2009 Post subject: |
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Hi
Detune it down to 600cc 4 stroke levels of performance and you could probably avoid having to change the pistons often at all. People seem to get an NSR to hit 30000 miles on the original pistons, and scale the power up with the capacity and that would give you a 120hp 600.
And check the price of a couple of new cams and the pistons don't look so expensive .
One problem with 2 strokes is that most of the work in developing engines is for racing and for cars, both of which only really bother with cheap, easily understood and compliant with racing regs 4 strokes.
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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chris-red |
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chris-red Have you considered a TDM?
Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 16:13 - 14 Dec 2009 Post subject: |
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Kickstart wrote: | Hi
Detune it down to 600cc 4 stroke levels of performance and you could probably avoid having to change the pistons often at all. People seem to get an NSR to hit 30000 miles on the original pistons, and scale the power up with the capacity and that would give you a 120hp 600.
And check the price of a couple of new cams and the pistons don't look so expensive .
One problem with 2 strokes is that most of the work in developing engines is for racing and for cars, both of which only really bother with cheap, easily understood and compliant with racing regs 4 strokes.
All the best
Keith |
I bought a whole tt600 engine for the Cams it cost me £2.20 I have rarely heard of a camshaft going wrong. Think how much a set of il4 2t barrells would cost if a ring caught on a port. Upwards of £1000 I would have though. ____________________ Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything. |
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 16:19 - 14 Dec 2009 Post subject: |
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Hi
Smaller ports for an engine detuned like that and there should be no chance of a ring snagging.
Cams do go reasonably often. Last bit of the engine to get lube so they get wrecked when people start engines and rev them straight away (or have a Kawasaki choke which mostly appear to have nothing between "stall" and "6000rpm").
Suspect really that the makers can get as much power as they want from 4 strokes. Make 1hp more than your opponents and you have won the brochure war for that year. 10hp would also win it but just cost you a load more development money and still be overtaken then next year.
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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Smooth |
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Smooth Could Be A Chat Bot
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
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Posted: 18:39 - 14 Dec 2009 Post subject: |
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Hi
Would be quite easy to make. You need the oil for the piston and bearings. If you can compress the mixture without using the crankcases (which could just be done with a supercharger) then you can seal the crankcases and use conventional 4 stroke lubrication.
The biggest problem with a 2 stroke is that the exhaust port and inlet port are open for a long time at the same time (same is true of a high performance 4 stroke with a bit of valve overlap, but nowhere near as long), hence a load of unburnt petrol goes straight down the exhaust. However if you inject the fuel after the exhaust port closes then this problem disappears.
Trouble is that getting direct injection to work quickly enough is difficult. Some cars have petrol direct injection but they are 4 stroke and only need to inject fuel 3000~4000 times a minutes, while a performance 2 stroke will need it about 3 times as often.
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 153 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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