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Mister James
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 29 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be fair, most legal (and illegal) migrants/immigrants/whatever are actually working, whereas I'd probably be prepared to go out on a limb and say that most (or at the very least, many) Britons on Jobseeker's allowance have chosen to be there.

Out of the 52% of detainees we get who haven't been shipped in from HMP, I'd say a fairly hefty slice of them were picked up for working over the hours allowed by their visa/residency - in gash jobs that I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.
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yambabe
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 29 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
the_guvnor_1_uk wrote:

The Eastern Europeans were not taking African jobs Colin, they were all taking British jobs. Which should be offered to British unemployed well before offering it to Immigrants, and ALL the unemployed legal immigrants should be doing community service like cleaning and sweeping and gardening parks in local areas to pay for the benefits they keep taking.


FFS. Rolling Eyes Can tell you have never worked in recruitment (agency or in-house). Do you have any idea at all how hard it was to fill a minimum wage job before the recent influx of Eastern Europeans? Guess how many people would come to interview because the DWP threatened to cut their benefits, be offered the job and then just not bother to turn up at all, turn up late, turn up and do fuck all work all day. According to the stats I compiled for the agency I do work for in the area we cover (Merseyside & North Cheshire) it comes to about 80%.

Most of the British unemployed don't want to work, it interferes with their drinking/druggingshagging/playstation/sleeping time.

It really makes me angry when people come out with this sort of shit. Try spending some time at the pointy end of the stick Guv, then tell me you still feel sorry for the poor downtrodden british underclass who would have as much chance as anyone else of doing these kind of jobs if they could just be fucking arsed to actually turn up for work once in a while......... Evil or Very Mad
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thegubner
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
I grew up in the poor downtrodden class of british society.

So please don't tell me to get a fucking clue. I think only affording to live on shitty council estates where nonces had tried it on twice with me by the age of ten, gives me a clue about all this downtrodden shit.


Bollocks.

The doley's should be on community service, I aint said different I just mentioned immigrants.

You CHOSE to think I am saying it about foreigners only.


Carry on in your up your own arses lifestyle, and dont take others opinions on board.

I have family that are doleys and I think they are lazy cunts.

I have family who want to work, but most jobs in the area are taken by foreign workers.

What about the people who WANT to work, you aint thinking about those are you?

No just being judgmental about it all.

In short your posts read ....Foreigners = Good

British out of work= scum.

When I was living in spain as an immigrant or whatever, if I had gone to the government and asked for hand outs cos I was skint I wouldnt have fucking got them.

What is wrong with people.
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with babyyam about the low end jobs being hard to fill. I can imagine how hard it would have been to say been a fruit farmer recruiting fruit pickers.

But also, the employer would've been stubborn and not have paid more than minimum wage so many British people would have told them to feck off. Work a crappy job for a few quid an hour, or be on the dole?

So the options here are lower dole payments to force people to take these dead end jobs, employers raise wages to make the job appear more attractive or get in immigrants who will do the work for cheap.

Obviously the employers jumped at the chance of people who would willingly pick fruit for 12 hours a day for just a few quid an hour. Of course they would.

The middle class always say that the British unemployed should have accepted work for poorer pay than they wanted, which is standard economics.

BUT, these same middle class people are now complaining that their private school fees are getting more expensive and how their nice houses are all getting too expensive thanks to help from rich foreign nationals.

Maybe they have the right to be upset, but so do the British working class who have to work for less if they want a job. Especially when that wage offers such a meaningless existence in life. Look at some of the immigrants. They work 15+ hours a day, live in some dingy shack, just to get by. That's not a life, especially not in Britain which is supposed to be a leading economic country!

The thing is that the ruling elite are middle class, so ultimately they see the world from their own viewpoint.
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yambabe
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
the_guvnor_1_uk wrote:
I grew up in the poor downtrodden class of british society.

So please don't tell me to get a fucking clue. I think only affording to live on shitty council estates where nonces had tried it on twice with me by the age of ten, gives me a clue about all this downtrodden shit.


Bollocks.



Rolling Eyes Now go back and read what I actually posted Guv.

Don't give me all your prole bollocks about them & us, more of us than you imagine have been there done that we just don't feel the need to shout about it.

I gave you hard facts. Since 1998 I have worked in the admin/accounts office of 2 agencies who supply workers to the sort of jobs that are now predominantly filled by foreign workers. I didn't say foreign = good british = bad at all.

What I said (and I could probably back up with names & numbers if you realy wanted) was that until around 2003-4 it went like this:

Factory/warehouse asks for 5 new starters for 2 weeks on Monday. You advertise local to the work and get maybe 50 applicants, brilliant. You can't get hold of at least 10 so you interview maybe 40, at least 10 are a total waste of space and you can discount them straight away once you have seen them. So now you've got 30 people for 5 jobs. You pick what you think will be the "best" 5 and give them all the details to go to work. Come Monday, if you're lucky 2 will turn up. So you get clever, you offer the job to 10 people and if you're really lucky 5 will turn up. At least two of them will be sacked on the first day because they just won't work. So you send 2 more the next day, but now another one of your original 5 has not turned up for work so you send another couple the day after, which is just as well cos you're now on Wednesday and one has shown late with a hangover and another has disappeared & switched his mobile off. So you send 3 more on Thursday, one never shows. So you've now sent 17 people to fill 5 jobs. Friday is payday and only one person shows for work. The client is on the phone ranting and raving, but there's no point him going to another agnecy because exactly the same thing will happen. I've seen this over and over and over again, not any sort of dig at the working class it's a cold hard fact about minimum wage jobs.

Then come the Poles and the Albanians. You send one, he turns up for work on time, works hard, turns up again the next day. Come Friday his brother/sister/cousin/mum needs a job too, anything going? So you send them too and guess what? They turn up when they are supposed to, and they work while they are there too.

So that's why "your" jobs have gone to the Eastern Europeans, and why employers these days will ask for them over and above other nationalities, cos they turn up for work. No PC bollocks, no racism, just plain old economics. "They are taking our jobs" is just crap, because if we were doing the jobs properly there would be no jobs for them to take...........

Ask anyon who has worked for an agency (I'm sure Colin will agree with me) or recruited direct for an operation who have lots of min wage workforce. It's been a bloody nightmare for years.
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thegubner
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well here is a FACT about agencies for you.

I have been looking for employment lately, I have gained it.

But I spent a fair old while talking to god knows how many agencies who treat you like utter shit, talk to you like utter shit and probably think you ARE utter shit.

When you let them pull your strings, and go to them and do what they say, you find a load of foreigners there who on the whole get treated pretty well, but then Politically correctness means they should be treated well.

PC says Jack about the normal white able bodied british person.

Thats why people fuck agencies off, I know a hell of a lot of people who have exactly the same opinion of agencies, people in manchester and down south, so its not just round here.

People who wont go back to agencies for the same reason.....They treat you like utter shit.

Admittedly there are some very well paid jobs with agencies, but people I know would rather take a slightly lower wage than go back to an agency to be treated like shit.

This is why there are increasingly less British people taking agency Jobs.

An example is a mate of mine who drives wagons with a hiab licence, he could get 11 quid an hour here on some agencies, but he sticks to 8 quid an hour where he is, cos he has done agencies and yep you guessed it.....doesn't want to be treated like shit again for a job.


Now cue a post about....the agency I work for isnt like that. Rolling Eyes
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
About a year ago, a guy told me about his visit to an employment agency. He asked if there was any unskilled work, he didn't mind working shifts or unsociable hours and didn't mind getting his hands dirty. He was turned away, yet there was a foreign guy asking for help completing his paperwork at the next desk. The lazy Brit complained but they just shrugged their shoulders. How true it is I do not know, but he's not the type of bloke to spin a story.
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yambabe
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Agency work is a numbers game. As long as you have "bums in seats" so to speak and the people you place on the job turn up and work, the agency will not normally bother where you come from. They don't care if you are red, white, blue or purple with little yellow spots, they don't care if you worship God, Allah or the Honey Monster they just need you to be there cos if you don't go to work they don't get paid.

A lot of agencies do treat their workers like shit. A lot more don't. From personal experience we have never turned anyone away at application stage but they only ever get one chance once they are on the books, if they let us down then we fuck 'em off.

Agencies aren't there to help workers, they are there to make money out of them. If you approach them from that angle then in my experience you usually get on OK. You are, after all, only there for the money too.

And Guv, I gave the agency example because it's what I've had a lot of direct experience of. What about all the direct recruiters who can't get people in to work in their own companies who are reliable? I've been speaking to employers for 10 years, take the agency out of the picture and employers still prefer to employ foreign workers for min wage jobs these days because they are more reliable. Like I said, if the Brits were doing the jobs in the first place there would be no jobs for the foreigners..........
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thegubner
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
babyyam wrote:

I've been speaking to employers for 10 years, take the agency out of the picture and employers still prefer to employ foreign workers for min wage jobs these days because they are more reliable. Like I said, if the Brits were doing the jobs in the first place there would be no jobs for the foreigners..........



Thats not the case, its the piece of shit employers who would rather have cheaper foreign labour that are the problem.

The place I work is in an immigrants playground, there are shed loads of them.

The firm would rather pay me 8 pound an hour as a trainee than have two or three foreigners for the same 8 quid between them.

The trained staff are on a minimum of 10 pound an hour, some just got a raise.

Again there are no immigrants there and i firmly believe they wouldn't get a job there, even for 3 quid an hour.

The employer would rather have a workforce of british lads.

So no not all employers would rather have cheap foreign labour.

How can you say that there are more agencies that dont treat you like shit, I must have spoke with about 40 or 50 agencies minimum over the years and I reckon 90% of them treat you like shit.

Unless you have worked for them all you cant say what they are all like.

But what I said about brits not wanting to go and get treated like shit or second rate citizens by agencies still stands.
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Didge
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 01 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
babyyam wrote:
the_guvnor_1_uk wrote:
I grew up in the poor downtrodden class of british society.

So please don't tell me to get a fucking clue. I think only affording to live on shitty council estates where nonces had tried it on twice with me by the age of ten, gives me a clue about all this downtrodden shit.


Bollocks.



Rolling Eyes Now go back and read what I actually posted Guv.

Don't give me all your prole bollocks about them & us, more of us than you imagine have been there done that we just don't feel the need to shout about it.

I gave you hard facts. Since 1998 I have worked in the admin/accounts office of 2 agencies who supply workers to the sort of jobs that are now predominantly filled by foreign workers. I didn't say foreign = good british = bad at all.

What I said (and I could probably back up with names & numbers if you realy wanted) was that until around 2003-4 it went like this:

Factory/warehouse asks for 5 new starters for 2 weeks on Monday. You advertise local to the work and get maybe 50 applicants, brilliant. You can't get hold of at least 10 so you interview maybe 40, at least 10 are a total waste of space and you can discount them straight away once you have seen them. So now you've got 30 people for 5 jobs. You pick what you think will be the "best" 5 and give them all the details to go to work. Come Monday, if you're lucky 2 will turn up. So you get clever, you offer the job to 10 people and if you're really lucky 5 will turn up. At least two of them will be sacked on the first day because they just won't work. So you send 2 more the next day, but now another one of your original 5 has not turned up for work so you send another couple the day after, which is just as well cos you're now on Wednesday and one has shown late with a hangover and another has disappeared & switched his mobile off. So you send 3 more on Thursday, one never shows. So you've now sent 17 people to fill 5 jobs. Friday is payday and only one person shows for work. The client is on the phone ranting and raving, but there's no point him going to another agnecy because exactly the same thing will happen. I've seen this over and over and over again, not any sort of dig at the working class it's a cold hard fact about minimum wage jobs.

Then come the Poles and the Albanians. You send one, he turns up for work on time, works hard, turns up again the next day. Come Friday his brother/sister/cousin/mum needs a job too, anything going? So you send them too and guess what? They turn up when they are supposed to, and they work while they are there too.

So that's why "your" jobs have gone to the Eastern Europeans, and why employers these days will ask for them over and above other nationalities, cos they turn up for work. No PC bollocks, no racism, just plain old economics. "They are taking our jobs" is just crap, because if we were doing the jobs properly there would be no jobs for them to take...........

Ask anyon who has worked for an agency (I'm sure Colin will agree with me) or recruited direct for an operation who have lots of min wage workforce. It's been a bloody nightmare for years.



Now while I have no time for people being on the dole because of laziness, there are too many on there because they won't work for shit wages, and why the fuck should they?
You, and those that think like you, are missing the point.
Mass immigration, creates low-pay. It was one of the many negative factors concerning large scale immigration that was pointed out in this video which I posted on another thread a while back. https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5871651411393887069

Of course, it is in the interests of big business, and this government, that wages are pushed down. That is one of the reasons that fuck-all will be done about it except talk.
The new 'points system' that Nu-Labour have brought in, like many of it's schemes, will not work, as it will affect illegals not at all.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 11 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Didge wrote:

Now while I have no time for people being on the dole because of laziness, there are too many on there because they won't work


But is £7 an hour a bad wage?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7288430.stm ?

And working for poor wages is a right of passage and it forms two people, those who work to get out of such a situation 14 months ago I was on £6 an hour, I worked my way up to £9 an hour , I expect to be on £11 in 5 months time, in 14 months time I expect to be on £13.

As said the problem with many people is that they expect it to be handed down on a plate to them.
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mattsprattuk
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 11 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 12 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Didge wrote:

Now while I have no time for people being on the dole because of laziness, there are too many on there because they won't work


But is £7 an hour a bad wage?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7288430.stm ?

And working for poor wages is a right of passage and it forms two people, those who work to get out of such a situation 14 months ago I was on £6 an hour, I worked my way up to £9 an hour , I expect to be on £11 in 5 months time, in 14 months time I expect to be on £13.

As said the problem with many people is that they expect it to be handed down on a plate to them.


£7 an hour is fucking good money for a job, that whilst being labour intensive, is stress free and outside. Jobs like that can be a blessing in disguise as once your finished, your finished for proper. Some days I do not switch of from work 24/7 due to its nature.

That story is just plain sickening.
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 12 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:

But is £7 an hour a bad wage?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7288430.stm ?


I saw that on one of those White season trailers. The guy turned up and was offered £7.40/hr for some job (couldn't hear it) and he just turned away and laughed saying that they have to be joking.

Is it just me that thinks £7/hr is a fecking good wage for unskilled labour? When I get work in the summer I'll be more than happy with £5-6 an hour!
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 12 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shay HTFC wrote:
Is it just me that thinks £7/hr is a fecking good wage for unskilled labour? When I get work in the summer I'll be more than happy with £5-6 an hour!


So you'll be happy with a take home pay of £600 a month? That wouldn't pay an average mortagage, let alone the increased fuel prices, increased food prices, increased council tax, increased energy bills....etc etc. What if you had children?

Yes, the immigrants will work for pennies. This is because the average householder round here couldn't afford to. Confused

Economic warfare on the middle class in the face of impending recession. I doubt the majority will realise until they can't afford to eat/ Confused
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 12 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe I'm being stupid here, but surely £7 an hour is more than £600?

Using this website I get to to be just shy of £950 a month.

Then on top of that, no offence, but you live in Kent and work in London. Living in Peterborough will be cheaper I'd have thought and definitely cheaper when I return to Halifax.

No one expects someone to be working in the fields to live like a king, but I think £7 an hour is enough to live an alright life (bar London Rolling Eyes ) providing you are frugal. But unfortunately some people just aren't.

e.g. that White season program the other day in Bradford where they couldn't afford any money and the guy got a tenner off a scratchcard and was well chuffed. Did you see their TV? Their whole living room furnishings? They were nice!

Obviously you'll find it very hard if you go out buying LCD screens, expensive leather sofas and PS3s, but for most people, £7 an hour is enough to live a humble life in rented accommodation before they try and work their way up.

Edit: Just to state some things.
None of my family has a car. I have a motorbike in which I went for the cheapest one I could find.
My lone mum is now looking for a job at Tesco / Royal Mail etc because my father who was the bread winner died some time back.

Luckily I have been brought up well and got into a good school without any tuition other than my parents helping me with work.
Minimum wage is a bit of a joke to live a proper life on unless you work 12 hours a day and do nothing but sit infront of the TV with a blanket on all the rest of the time, but if I was in need of money and someone offered me £7 an hour for an unskilled job, working the fields, I would bite their hand off!

I disagree with mass immigration as it definitely is for the needs of big business rather than the common person, but treating it as an individual case, £7 an hour is not something to be scoffed at if you have no job! £2.50 is however as I believe a lot of immigrants are scraping by on!
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JonB
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 12 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
£7 an hour is a good wage for unskilled labour!

When i'm back home i'm only on £5.52 an hour for the bar work I do, which means unsociable and long hours.

Can't believe people would rather be on the dole.

If anything I feel sorry for them, work might be boring, but at least you get to interact with different people rather than watch the friends omnibus on everyday on E4. Heck, when i'm at home not doing any uni work I get bored stiff.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 12 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shay HTFC wrote:
Maybe I'm being stupid here


Yep, because you said you'd be happy on £5/hr, which is ~£600 pm take home. If you're young and have no mortgage and no commitments, and like most youngsters, live at home with the parents then I can see that being a reasonable amount. It's roughly £10,000 a year wage. If you're a single adult then I can imagine life would be extremely tough on that wage, would you even have a chance to buy anywhere? And would you really get any chance of a good wage increase if there's a steady influx of immigrants prepared to work for the lower wage? I doubt it. This is why immigration limits are important, a lower paid workforce will eventually affect us all.
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 12 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah yeah, assumed you were talking about £7/hr

But regardless of me working for £5/hr, the lad (must have been maybe 21) who just scoffed at £7/hr can't really be defended can he?

I acknowledge that a lot of immigrant jobs are unheard of and they get paid £3 and hour and pay most of it back in rent etc.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 16 years, 52 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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