MMGW nailed again!

[Itchy]

Ha yet another nail in the coffin of climate change

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7287988.stm

Flooding NOT linked to MMGW , and instead it is what lots of people suggested building on flood plains.
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[Kris]

I think you should rephrase the comment.

Climate change does exist, though it is a perfectly natural change that has been happening since the birth of this planet.

Man-made climate change is bullshit. Carbon Dioxide being a devil gas is bullshit.


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[Itchy]

Oh come on in the last bit I did say MMGW.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Kris]

[Itchy]

https://www.detromfg.com/images/03.gif


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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Mister James]

I find it a little droll that I'm usually diametrically opposed to just about everything Kris says (and often Itchy too), yet I agree 105% that all this Global Warming CO2 rubbish is utter shite!

Power to the people, Comrades!
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[Kickstart]

Hi

While I am not a supporter of all the MMGW stuff, realistically to an extent it is happening. Difficult to argue against it because the effect can be shown.

However the amount of warming that can be laid at its door is limited. Much of any claimed possible increase is down to positive feedbacks, yet how these feedbacks work is not really understood. For example, planet heats up, so more water vapour in the air. So more cloud cover. Trouble is is there a feedback from the extra cloud cover, or does that feedback vary between a positive and a negative feedback depending on how high the cloud is?

Direct warming can be calculated many ways. Or put it another way there is a massive margin for error. The effect of doubling CO2 is assumed by the IPCC to be a warming of 4wm^2 to the lower atmosphere (and around half that for the surface). Global temperature without any "greenhouse effect" would be -18, yet actual temperature is +15. The greenhouse effect causing that is equivalent to 148wm^2. Even increasing this is 152wm^2 (from doubling CO2) and assuming a linear increase gives a temperaure on about 0.9 degrees.

That is a pretty small amount of warming from a massive increase in CO2. Increases beyond that are based on assumptions on feedbacks.

All the best

Keith
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[iooi]

They also fail to mention in there all the flood defences that have been built on certain rivers to protect certain area's that were part of the flood plains till they have been built on. Thus adding to the torrent of water that flows down the rivers.

Just think for every house that is built on the flood plains that is in effect nearly doubling the amount of water that is in the river.
A, from the fact the ground it is built on cannot soak the water up.
B, the run off from the roof and ground area and roads is piped straight to the treetment works and then into the rivers.
In fact this goes for any new house built on fresh land. Also many farmers are draining their land a lot more now so that it can be used all year round.
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[Kris]

[Kickstart]

Hi

It is all VERY complex. Way more complex than the models used to scare people.

As I said, an increased CO2 level will trap more heat. That bit is easy to prove and the amount pretty easy to calculate, and also a fairly small amount. Scientifically it is about as complex as 1+1=2.

Trouble comes with all the various feedbacks that are known about but whose direct effects are unknown.

The scare stories rely on assuming many things are positive feedbacks, when some of them may even be a negative feedback (eg, cloud at different levels). More heat means more evaporation from oceans, and water is a potent greenhouse gas, until it forms clouds when it starts to block the incoming heat and so causes cooling.

I know very well that January was a cold month. Further it is well known that global temperature has basically been fairly static for getting on for a decade (just static at a high level). But one month is basically irrelevant (just as any local temperature records are basically irrelevant). Easy to point out that on that graph there are 10 colder months, showing at least 2 colder Januarys.

Issue is why these things happen. There are thousands of different factors which will affect things, most of which are poorly understood, and plenty of which are inter related.

As far as I am concerned the hysteria over MMGW is silly. But unless you understand the basics of it you are going to get torn to pieces by the arguments from the more eloquent MMGW believers.

My view is that human CO2 is about as important as a fart in a football stadium. Certainly exists, easily tested for and proven to make things smell worse. But overwhelmed by many other factors.

Whether CO2 follows temp or the other way round seems to depend on whether you are talking about short term or long term records (and when you start to deal with long term records from ice cores you start to deal with all sorts of inaccuracies). It is also to an extent irrelevant as if increased temp does lead to more CO2, then the more CO2 will further increase the temp until another factor comes along and changes things.

All the best

Keith
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[Itchy]

Has anybody noticed? , alot of people in the meeja , are no longer using the worlds global warming , instead they are saying climate change, and thus if it gets colder , oh its climate change, if it gets warmer oh climate change.

(notes there were some graphs recently which I didn't absorb much of that stated for the last 5 years temp rise has been nil).
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[queen of string]

Doesn't seem to be slowing up all these environmental taxes and restrictions sadly.
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[Kickstart]