Making a bike legal ( Found One !!!! )

[MugenSeiki]

By this i don't mean lights , indicators etc ( feel free to list those bits too but i can search the answer to that )

I mean frames , V5's and engines . I'm told all 3 should match ( as in the frame and engine number ) , the vehicles logbook ( V5 ) .

But .. I've been looking , reading etc and I'm a bit puzzled .

I've seen eBay ads like this

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/yamaha-dtr-125-frame-and-linkage_W0QQitemZ120331851803QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081111?IMSfp=TL081111111003r17502

And hadn't realised you could get a frame re-stamped by the DVLA ( I'm quoting the add ) . WTF is this possible ? Legal ? I'd be pissed if someone could just re-stamp my old nicked frame .

Also , I've seen people doing engine transplants . Do they ( you ) send the V5's off to the DVLA to get the numbers put onto it or what ?

I may be reading the whole thing wrong but i just have to ask these questions to get it straight in my head .

I'd love to build a bike ( costly i know ) , but would like to understand the legalities first before considering all my options .


So for example the way i first understood it was that i could buy a frame , shocks etc everything else . Then at the end chuck a random engine in . Not so i understand now so how's it go .... ?
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[Ant132]

The engine number is kind of irrelevant, as long as the capacity hasnt changed there shouldnt be problems changing the actual number.

To be 'legal', the bikes frame and engine number must match the printed frame and engine number on the V5.

As i said, the engine number is not much of a problem, but the frame number is critical. That frame has no number, so to get it on the road, or even elgible for road use (to hold a V5) you must have a valid frame number that corresponds with a V5 and registration plate.

From my limited knowledge of this, basically, the DVLA end up giving you a new frame number that you must have stamped onto the frame by a garage (or do it yourself and get the garage to sign off the forms) then you need to get the bike MSVA'd which ensure the bike is fit for purpose, not sure if it must be insured and MOT'ed by the frame number prior to the MSVA.

Another way that is possible, is an age-related plate. Not sure if a frame number is required for dating purposes though?

All in all, its quite a lengthy and can be a costly process especially when the popularity of DT's means you could pick up a frame and V5 for not much money at all, and leaves you without the hassle of registering it.

Like i said, this is just from my experience, i had a frame i wanted to register and thats what happened to me. I got half way through the process and a frame and V5 came up for £25, what was i going to do?
____________________
1980 Suzuki TS50 ~ 1984 Honda CB400N ~ 1992 Triumph Trident ~ 1998 Suzuki Bandit 1200

[MugenSeiki]

Wow nice one man , im getting it slowly

Ive seen a few frames with V5's but ignored them thinking i needed the engine with it to match

If i was to take this on id be carting it off to Yamaha for the difficult bits ( important work etc )

[Ant132]

Yeah, they are the ones to go for. Frame with V5!

As for the engine, dont worry about it, the V5 will have an engine number on it. Wether you even decide to send the V5 back to get it changed is really upto you, you need to legally but they dont check it on the MOT.

What bits would you send it to Yam for? Im sure with a little practice and the help of a Haynes manual you will be fine

Yeah i see what you mean, but i knew my frame was legit, i just wanted to swap it for a knackered frame i had. Therefore i had no worries about it coming back as stolen. I had to take it for a VIC beforehand to check for what you said. It was to check that the vehicle actually existed and the numbers where there and read the same as what i stated they were. I suppose all sorts of check went through regarding stolen bikes too. Sorry cant help more really, no doubt someone who has more knowledge will be along to help soon
____________________
1980 Suzuki TS50 ~ 1984 Honda CB400N ~ 1992 Triumph Trident ~ 1998 Suzuki Bandit 1200

[MugenSeiki]

I say send it off to Yamaha because i dont want to come on here with the high and mighty ' i can do it easily ' attitude mate

I know me and i'll probrably try attacking everything ( if i was to take this on ) , but i'd also like it done properly

If i got to this stage i'd be over the moon ( and so would the girlfriend lol )

https://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/dred_1978/101D0153.jpg

Right i'm going to keep an eye out for frames with V5's and worry about an engine at the end .

Just to see what i was getting into i gave Yamaha a call and got a quote on the front forks and rear shock .... £600


You've been a big help so far mate , thanks
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[MugenSeiki]

Thinking about it now , ive also been looking at field bikes that run but not found any with a V5 ...

Im now wondering if i could get one of the crappier ones ( 200 300 ££ ) , get the frame sorted legally and salvage the rest of the bike for parts i can use

Or am i wrong again ?
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[Ant132]

£600 - Ouch!

Browsing eBay im sure a decent pair of forks and a decent shock will come up for the right price, wont even cost much to get the shock re-con'd, new seals and fluids in the forks and they will be fine.

My previous bike knowledge was precisely zero and i managed to start with a frame and end up with a fully working bike, So if i can do it...

https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m62/ant-147/DSC01414.jpg

Good luck and keep us posted if you manage to find anything
____________________
1980 Suzuki TS50 ~ 1984 Honda CB400N ~ 1992 Triumph Trident ~ 1998 Suzuki Bandit 1200

[Ant132]

[rotax81]

in simple terms. a frame with a V5 is the one you ideally want to look for.
a field bike/bike with no V5 is ok as long as it wasnt stolen and the chassis number is visible.
____________________
ZX636C6F road. ZX636C1H track. ZX7R redundant. ZX0.5R minimoto as ornament.
Audi A4 Avant 1.9TDi and VW Transporter 2.5TDi 888 Special (no mot and tax lol)

[MugenSeiki]

Swaying more and more by the second , to me that bare frame is porn ... oh the potential

That's the thing i know certain parts will cost more than id like , but the way i see it is there's only a few important bits to get , then the rest i can scoure breakers and ebay for ( cosmetic etc ) . NOT forking out ( get it ) £600 for forks and a rear shock abs but at least i know thats what they cost new .

Way it goes and I'll be getting exactly what i want as apposed to ending up with a shitter . Taking nothing away from what Ive previously been told ( buy a running £500 example ) ... but there aren't any about !! still looking though ...


Thanks again guys , made my weekend
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[cicatrez]

I don't mean to steal the topic but may I ask something.
Bike I bought had a new engine put in (as the previous owner was reccomended by there machanic to just put a new engine in rather then rebuild/repair the one that was in there).
They never got round to putting the new engine number down on the V5. Will that cause any problems with tax or MOT's? my dad MOT's cars and says that it wont matter when it comes to MOT's. Probably the only problem would be if the police were ever to see the bike and see do a check up on the engine number to see it doesn't match and think its stolen (in a very small case scenarios).
____________________
-----------------------
'02 Honda City Fly

[MugenSeiki]

Ask away , it'l help me too

Was just thinking ... id definately want the V5 to have all the correct details , and as stated above i dont think its required for an MOT .... but how do you , me anyone know the engine wasnt nicked ? How do you check that is what im asking . Call the DVLA with the engine number ? Will sellers willingly give this out for you to check ?

Is that MSVA a NI only thing or what cause i cant find any test centres near me lol London
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[MugenSeiki]

Dt frame new from Yamaha £700 + VAT no numbers on them either

field bike it is
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[prawny1]

[MugenSeiki]

Yeah VOSA and DVLA were kinda saying the same thing when i called this morning . They said i could take a blank frame to them and get it stamped up , but if that means the rest of the bike will be in question then i wont bother . They said id have to write to my local DVLA and ask for a new VIN number .. then i can register it . all very confusing again tbh because i dont see how anyone can just turn up with random frames and get them stamped up

I want it all legit so will only be looking for V5's with frames from now on .

Didn't realise id have to keep receipts for the other parts though ( forks , wheels etc ) . That's a lot of hassle and paper to ride around with ... and why ? If theres no markings on these parts how can either of us 9 police or myself ) prove they're stolen bits or not


So frame with V5 and the rest i can build up until i get to the engine ? Then call DVLA and get the new engine number onto the V5
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[stevo as b4]

As i said starting with a running bike that is fully road legal is the best bet. You will have these advantages:

1, An easily obtainable registration document.

2, The bike will have all the parts needed to be road legal if it's taxed and tested.

3, You can at least test ride the bike, if not use it for a few weeks, just to see how it rides and what if any main problems and issues it has mechanically that you would need to sort out during the re-build.

I can understand the attraction of a cheap field bike, but if the owner does not have plenty of history for it, a V5, and preferably all of the lights and other wiring and equipment to make it road legal again, then i'd not even consider it myself.

You will spend less on your DT project if you can get a complete bike to start with IMO, as there are normally always some parts that are either ok, or can be cleaned up and re-used with nearly every bike. To buy forks, engine's, shocks and bodywork all seperately and then have to spend more on re-building and renovating parts, as well as all the fasteners and little bits you will need to complete the bike, will cost you alot more.

If you don't want to pay for a running but tatty bike to begin with, then an MOT failure or a bike that has a seized engine etc, is the best bargain purchase to begin from. I would not ever buy a crashed bike with bent frame and forks though, as you don't know what damage has been done or if it's possible to straighten out until its stripped down and on a jig.

You shouldn't give up looking IMO. I waited ages for another KMX200 to come up for sale in the West mids after i sold my 1st one, and it was around 12months of casually looking in free ads papers and on ebay etc, before one came up, which was very local and upon seeing it i knew it would be a perfect project bike, once id haggled down the price as much as i could.

Do you have a decent free ads paper in your area? if so it pop into a supermarket and scan through it every week, as you do see some cracking bikes advertised in them sometimes! Not everyone wants to use Ebay, as there is alot of timewasters and hassle potential. Another sometimes great place to find bargains in in the ads notices in supermarkets etc. You sometimes see an ad for a nice old bike at a reasonable price, and it has the advantage of a much smaller market audience. Ebay can be anything other than a bargain sometimes, as there will always be far more potential buyers than sellers.

I should know, i've been trying to buy a really immaculate Rover turbo coupe or similar equivalent 15yr old performance car for the last 5months, and some cars have had silly bids of over 4k for an 8owners, 15yr old vehicle that often is nothing like as good as the pics suggest.

[MugenSeiki]

I wont give up looking mate , trust me I've got everything saved as a favourite and every supermarket is tired of me looking

It's also being in London too , it's just not the sort of bike people have around here , especially where i am . Essex and Kent isn't too far so i check their local papers too . Anything still running that ive seen the owners keep asking over £800 , even for a rusted up , no lights etc 94 model . What are people on right now ? They arent selling

I now understand the issues with buying a field bike or even building . I'm just trying to find out info on all options . I'm in no hurry to ride , i am however in a hurry to get going with making an old piece of crap look new again

Id honestly be happy with a working running chassis ( no bent forks etc ) and a fooked engine . No problem with carting off the engine to Yamaha for them to fix . Like a fool i bought a new car ( in sig ) so nothing costs under £500 to fix at the dealer . Used to getting bent over by them
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[MugenSeiki]

Ok just got a reply to this ad , i asked if he had the frame with V5

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250312719888&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

This was the reply ...

i bought the bike from a police auction it was a stolen recovered its been re-stamped by durham police the frame no, is DURPOLIIHOMCY5533


Maybe someone can use that as a spare
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[NiteMare]

i'd do as others have suggested and keep looking for a bike that is as complete as possible as even odd size bolts or stupid brackets/clips can be a pain/expensive to find ...

a bike that you can buy for 500 - 600 quid in running condition that just needs tarting up would cost you about 1500 quid to build buying bits from here there and everywhere if you went the build it from nothing route ...

i built an old goldwing a couple of years ago from the remains of three scrap ones and assorted bits, i was given the first one and i still spent 1200 - 1400 quid including fuel driving up and down the country to collect the second two...

my slabby fighter cost me about 850 (wasted a couple of hundred), i bought a 250 quid wreck and all i kept was the frame, forks, tank and odds and sods, i replaced almost everything else including the engine (out with the 750 and in with an 1100), changed the wheels, brakes, exhaust and built my own wiring harness....

if i'd paid someone else to do the work on both those bikes i'd probably have doubled the cost of each, use any project you buy to learn from, buy a manual and tools and take your time, most of us started in a similar way to yourself deciding to rebuild a wreck or remains, which is how you end up being "all high and mighty" and having a little knowledge....

you may think that buying tools is a waste of time being as you know little or nothing and lack confidence, but if you don't try then you'll always be that way and never learn, my attitude to tools is, once they've been used 3 times then they've paid for themselves, everytime you use them after that they are earning/saving you money (how much per hour does a garage charge you ?? )how many decent tools can you buy for three hours labour charges ??

ALWAYS get a manual for the bike/car you are working on, that's a major investment in itself, any bike/car i get i buy the manual for the moment i buy the car/bike (be prepared )
____________________
it ain't broke...

i ain't fixed it enough

[Gazdaman]

When I parked my bandit in the side of a VW Golf I picked up a frame off eBay with v5 for £50.

Chucked my engine in, sent off the v5 reflecting the frame's new engine number. Got a number plate made up, and put on the number plate relating to the new frame.

Easy.

Frames with v5s are dead cheap. I got a GS500 one recently for £20. The basis of my new GS500 porn project.

Gaz

[MugenSeiki]

I'm trying to weigh up the pro's and cons , trust me I'm listening to the good advice and appreciating it .

I just cannot seem to find anything with a V5 anywhere near enough that i can have a look , over 200 miles is what I'm finding . Only been looking 2 months now so still kinda early days , but i really am looking everywhere . Calling ads that are over a year old too in hope !!

I can spend about £1500 in total and would prefer to spread that over 3 months ( £500 a month ) . Finding a running £500 or just one with a V5 would cut a long story short i know .

But surely if i'm prepared to put in the work it should pay off , right ? NOT interested in selling it on , could care less at this early stage .

I've mentally broken the bike down and these parts i was thinking would be the most expensive ( excluding engine ) .

Frame
Yolks
Forks
Rear shock ab
Wheels
Swingarm



All reconditioned , approved with receipts etc

Engine and components can all come later and depending on price i can get things new . Yamaha have told me that every nut and bolt is available for the DT so unless i go broke i shouldn't really get stuck . Totally understand that it'll cost more than option 1 in the long run , but i don't have the money all in one and would more than likely strip and redo any £500 bike i got . It's also giving myself the challenge , i think i enjoy that bit the best .

Yes it'll get frustrating and i could give up at the first hurdle , but for now I'm open to all options

As i say guys i know my best option is to buy whole and figure out what's broken , I'm still on the hunt so don't give up on me yet .

Getting the manual and will start stocking up on tools mate

Lets say i did begin to build , and then spotted a £500 runner , I'd probably want to keep the bits as spares .

Basically i'd gladly spend £500 ( bit by bit ) on what you see in this picture and be happy and ready for stage 2 . I really am that crazy


https://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/dred_1978/101D0153.jpg

Just wanted to know how to get there legally
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[Gazdaman]

Do not buy just a rolling chassis. It'll end in tears!

As has been said, brackets, tiny little housings, electric do-dahs etc will mean it will end in tears.

Tarting up something scruffy is another matter all together, than can be done, providing everything's there.

Even if you have to buy a full set of bearings, you'll be looking at well over £100. My GS swingarm has about 4-5 different bearings, and the same again of bushes.

Just keep an eye on eBay, or better your local paper, like Loot of FreeAds etc.

Gaz

[MugenSeiki]

OK point taken now , wont ask anymore

If i find something I'll certainly report on my success , but i really have been looking everywhere . Read so many random DT threads its untrue . Might resort to asking the local chavs to keep an eye out

Thanks again people


best example ive found that someone may be interested in

https://www.gumtree.com/london/05/31087905.html

A 600 mile round trip or £150 delivery without seeing the bike if i was to buy
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk

[stevo as b4]

So it's an EP3 CTR that you spunked all your cash on lol! Nice way to end up broke.

I can appreciate maybe that it's harder to find cheap 125's down in London, and DT's may be scarce for a few reasons. Also being down there it's quite possible that every bike thats got T&T and actually runs, will sell for much more than the average or reasonable price.

For this reason i would probably look else where, and even if you have to travel 200miles or so, to find a decent running but tatty machine, it must save you some money in the long run, even if it's a pain. Im looking for a car myself, and due to me wanting something fairly specific, and ideally one of the best most original examples left, i have to accept that i might have to travel a long way to find the right car if and when i see it that is?

As other's have said you should ideally budget around £150 at least for tools and basic workshop equipment to allow you do start stripping and re-assembling the bike. Im assuming you don't have anything tool wise already however.

Just using my bike as an example, i have set aside a budget (sold my works shares and emptied my savings account), of £2k maximum. That is it for me due to a mortgage, bills etc, so whatever i do the bike has to come in under that, or it will stay unfinished.

With that i'm hoping that £1500 will pretty much build the bike with mainly new or reconditioned parts, and the rest is for the other tools and equipment that i'd need or would ideally have to make the job easier. I have a garage, with a workbench& vice, most common tools except things like Micrometer's, vernier guages, and specialist tools. I also need a compressor, and if i had the cash id like a MIG welder too.

Just a few loose estimates, for what i think my bike will cost are:

1, Frame& swinging arm shotblasted and powdercoated £100?

2, Engine work, involving welding and re-nicasil plating the bore, porting work, and a crank re-build £250-300

3, Engine parts, Piston, rings, bearings oil seals, clutch kit, gaskets etc £200+

4, Supermoto wheels laced up using the old hubs, new rims, spokes and tyres £500.

5, Considering having the forks re-built properly with them re-valved to suit street riding, and i might know where i can get a custom shock built for a fair price.

Just the above stuff is over £1k, and adding to this is bodywork, paint, new fasteners, and other bits i want like a new carb, battery, radiator etc, will be a few £££ on top.

The bonus is that there are a few bits i can re-use from the bike, such as the renthall bars, rear light, clocks, wiring loom, a some of the fasteners etc.

What i will do is sell the spare wheels, and the old scratched plastics, dented tank, lights, indicators, and anything else that is worth selling. Some bits are only fit for the skip though like the shock, chain& sprockets etc.

It will be a task to do all the above for £2k, and this is bearing in mind that i started with a badly running but complete machine for £600. The only way to look at it that even begins to make any sense, is when you ask yourself what kind of decent bike can you pick up that looks almost as clean as new, and doesn't need a penny spending on it for £2600? There might be a few bikes i could get for that, but now im stuck with a non running stripped down bike, that won't sell for much so it's past the point of no return for me, even if there are those who would think it mad to spend the best part of £3k on a 20year old 200cc trail bike.

If you want to get yours done for £1500, it's quite possible but it would depend on how much needs doing, what your prepared to live with, and to an extent how much luck you have along the way?

There's every chance i could have got away with a new piston and rings etc, when my bike was still running, but continuing to use it for messing about, has cost me due to the engine destroying itself by trying to run on broken bits of piston skirt and rings!

[MugenSeiki]

Not broken me yet mate , not yet . EP3 was the best choice I've made car wise , just drinks like a mofo . The amount i was spending on previous bangers ( parts wise ) makes it all worth it . Had it a few years now and done a few bits , just need a bike for short work trips etc ... and fun factor

I have actually built a bike before but wont rely on that experience as it was an offroader , and not in this country . Parts were A LOT harder to source and mostly had to come from the States . Mission and a half but i got there in the end . ( be it the bike only lasted the summer ) ... and i was 14 and no such thing as internet .

Lots of tools , i've stripped a few cars i've owned and never throw things away . I'm sure there's specific tools i need to get and will do . Garage i've got , and an understanding GF too so either option i go for i know ill have the space to work .

Thanks for breaking that down man , still seems like an option but i'll see how it goes . Pretty much how i estimated it and it still doesn't scare me , but that's all on paper ( screen ) so still early days . I really am in no rush , but i know if i dont get everything straight in my head i'm likely to go wrong .

Still on the hunt for a shitter but i doubt i'll travel 200-300 miles to see it . Hoping something will pop up in Essex or Kent . A guy on egay had an 02 model in Basildon and was asking £800 ... it went for £1040.30 . Way she goes and I'm hoping another turns up that close .

Still looking ...

Thanks again for that personal experience break down man , i cant ever say i wasn't warned
____________________
www.dt125.co.uk