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Tilting at emotional windmills.

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Tarmacsurfer
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Tilting at emotional windmills. Reply with quote

Got to thinking about the concept of "love" and how it means different things to each of us. I think the best definition - if you can call it that - that I've seen is from one of Heinlein's books.

Robert Heinlein wrote:
Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own.


I'm genuinely curious as to how the massed intellect of BCF will de-construct such a subjective emotional experience. Is love a possessive thing or passive, is it violent or calming, divisive or unifying? What is love to you.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love is something invented by the greetings card industry to sell more products...
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Suitor_Stu
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Love is something invented by the greetings card industry to sell more products...


Personally I think that's bunkum. I agree with the OP. Have you never felt like that before about anyone?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

My answer was semi flippant.
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Tonka
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Re: Tilting at emotional windmills. Reply with quote

Tarmacsurfer wrote:
Got to thinking about the concept of "love" and how it means different things to each of us. I think the best definition - if you can call it that - that I've seen is from one of Heinlein's books.

Robert Heinlein wrote:
Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own.


I'm genuinely curious as to how the massed intellect of BCF will de-construct such a subjective emotional experience. Is love a possessive thing or passive, is it violent or calming, divisive or unifying? What is love to you.


That definition seems quite controlling imo - so I'd only be happy if someone else is happy? Thinking does that therefore mean that if they are unhappy, I will be too? Sounds bl00dy miserable to me! Embarassed
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Tarmacsurfer
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'see I'd disagree with you there Tonka, that's a personal extrapolation. The quote simply points out that the other party's happiness is a pre-requisite for you to be genuinely happy.

Given that you disagree, what's your personal definition? Discussion requires counterpoint Razz
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Suitor_Stu
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Re: Tilting at emotional windmills. Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
Only humans 'love'. Why? Is it not nothing more than an emotional expression of the biological drive to procreate? And if so, what real value does it have? It's just made-up bollocks.


I wouldn't necessarily say it's made up bollocks though, I mean if you boil it down to basics love makes you feel good. This is cause in this state of mind you release more happy hormones - the reason for why we are wired, physiologically speaking, to react like this is more uncertain obviously. Perhaps it is just an evolutionary thing we have developed to lead us to procreate, but does this make it less valid? I mean if you boil any human process down to a chemical level it can seem pretty futile!

So as a counter-point to that, if all we have 'got' in life is to enjoy different chemical feelings stimulated by the world around us, and love certainly is one of the more potent feelings we can have, then surely it makes it top of our priority list of the most important thing we can do regardless of having to look for a meaning in it?

Or am I just being a bit of a hippy? Laughing
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Re: Tilting at emotional windmills. Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:


Only humans 'love'.


How do you know that?
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.....
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Re: Tilting at emotional windmills. Reply with quote

mistergixer wrote:
Hetzer wrote:


Only humans 'love'.


How do you know that?


A dog 'loved' my leg once.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 27 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much as the romantic side of me really likes the neat quote at the beginning, I'm with Steven Pinker on the Evolutionary importance of the deliberately irrational attachment to an often substandard mate.

It's all good, but if you only want the love bit then skip to part 3. Each segment is 10 minutes long mind Shocked

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3 - Pertinent part
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Amanda
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 28 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I slightly agree with the happyness concept except there are 2 different forms of Love.

There's 'to Love someone' and 'Being In love with someone'

Ie: I love my family and yes i don’t like them being unhappy, but it doesn’t necessarily make my life an unhappy one.

Yet I’m in love with my boyfriend and when/if he’s unhappy then it makes me unhappy and vice versa, and we do everything we can to make the other happy.

Very Happy
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jack_zxr400
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 28 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think that definition you gave is basically saying you would need to be self sacrificing to be in love
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 28 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonny_ricardo wrote:
Much as the romantic side of me really likes the neat quote at the beginning, I'm with Steven Pinker on the Evolutionary importance of the deliberately irrational attachment to an often substandard mate.

It's all good, but if you only want the love bit then skip to part 3. Each segment is 10 minutes long mind Shocked

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3 - Pertinent part


Ahem!

Come on guys, it's ten minutes and high brow brilliance.

Get with the spirit.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 28 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:


I watched it (all 30 minutes) just after you'd originally posted it. Mildly amusing, but duh.


Confused

You honestly knew all of that originally. Really.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 29 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll admit it is all makes such good sense as to be obvious once told, but I still think the logic on Love is flawless. Explains how evolution could favour it in altricial species, and thus is great argument fodder.

You're right though, the brain as a computer is a very tired metaphor.
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killa
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 29 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

In brief my thoughts begin and end with the idea that, you can't have one without the other.
Right from the word go, or the big bang, what ever you call it, created the light and the dark, the ying and the yang and all that jazz. Ever expanding but never apart, this rock we're on and all life that co-exists with it is bound by it.
I think it makes it difficult to define in such a way because all of our senses have deteriorated over generations, sight, smell, hearing etc...as well as maybe the 'gut' feeling and emotions that we survive on.
Love has possibly become something it wasn't, we haven't had much choice over the years, love is described as a feeling you get when your very fond of it. 'It' because the word love is used just as much as 'like' for pretty much anything, even inanimate objects.

If you want a piccy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chemical_basis_of_love.png
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snomag
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 29 Apr 2009    Post subject: Re: Tilting at emotional windmills. Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:


Love requires self-awareness.


I'm not so sure about that.

What if when you're 'not aware' of yourself means you can simply see and accept everything as it is, without the distortion of your expectations / past experiences?
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snomag
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 29 Apr 2009    Post subject: Re: Tilting at emotional windmills. Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:

When is one not aware of oneself? And when one is unaware how can one see anything, never mind accept it?


I guess it'd be a special state of mind. Like the state you're in, before you're born.
You're already there (kind of) but you don't think of yourself as an individual, you just exist. I would say in that state accepting everything as it is is almost inevitable as you're almost the part of it:
If your 'environment' is happy - you're happy.

I find it hard to explain (especially in English) so if it doesn't make any sense, just ignore me Smile.
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Fawbish
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 29 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
bonny_ricardo wrote:
I'll admit it is all makes such good sense as to be obvious once told, but I still think the logic on Love is flawless. Explains how evolution could favour it in altricial species, and thus is great argument fodder.

You're right though, the brain as a computer is a very tired metaphor.


It did get me thinking about love again, and I had a sudden moment as I was going to sleep, one that tied in very nicely with my 'Single Consciousness' theory. It also encompasses the Buhddist belief of Nirvana/wheel of life (where a person's soul becomes as one with the 'creator' upon working out all issues in the corporeal realm after a multitude of reincarnations).

Love, in this world, is all about being as close as possible to another person, both physically, mentally, and, more importantly, spiritually.

The greatest ideal, from that, is that all humans become similarly close to each other, strangers included. The utopian ideal. Love is everything.

So how about if the one consciousness, having hived itself off into countless trillions of individual consciousnesses across the universe, has done so in order to have them eventually work out that utopian ideal in corporeal form, at which point they carry it on beyond the grave, eventually forming back into the one consciousness? There's a cycle there, one that appears to mirror the cyclic Big Bang of the physical universe (as proposed by some physicists).

It actually finishes my theory off very nicely, creating one start-to-finish process. The one consciousness, entertaining itself eternally, almost as if breathing (where each exhalation is the creation of a new universe [big bang], the hiving of itself into countless individual consciousnesses, and the inhalation the discovery of love amongst the individual souls and their gradual recombination back into the one consciousness).

I think I've cracked it. Thumbs Up Laughing



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colin1
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 29 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love, is something you feel for another living thing, that cements a relationship.

It's an emotional state relating to how you feel about that living thing.

Living things can feel similar feelings for inanimate objects, if they become associated with positive experiences.

Love can be great if all is well, or it can leave you a bit exposed for an emotional fall.

The only kind of thought processes that humans are capable of, which animals arent, are thought processes related to language based sequential thought.

Animals thought processes, are more immediate, they live in the moment. Anyone who has had a pet that they didnt terrorise, should know that animals are just as capable of love as we are.
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