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Has anyone built a starter engine?

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Noggin
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 26 Sep 2009    Post subject: Has anyone built a starter engine? Reply with quote
Hi guys,

Right, after a rather severe off from my zx12r and as I'm going to be sitting around for a few weeks with nothing better to do...

I have deided to design and eventually build a motogp style starter engine for my r6 which is slowly becoming my track day bike, which I would eventually like to use as a club racing bike. I was wondering if anyone on here had ever built aything similar or had information that would help me design one.

For example: what sort of hp would a motor need? what speed would it need to run at in order to bump start a 99 r6?

Any info would be appreciated.

Craig G(Noggin)
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 26 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think you'll need a hugely powerful device. Something like a 12 starter motor off a diesel van driving a wide wheel (go-kart) on a small dolly frame. I'm sure you could make something very cheaply.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 26 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Or make a roller frame to start it using the van.

1930s Ariel did a post on the one he made not so long ago
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binge
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 26 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
A mate of mine made one for his NC29 Track bike.


He used a small Genny engine, Cant remember the CC. And a Go-Kart wheel. Chain driven from the Genny IIRC.

It was all built onto a small 2 wheel dolly with a pull/push handle, That had a accelerator up on the bars.



Remember the wheel needs to be spinning backwards on the dolly. Wink

Last edited by binge on 18:13 - 27 Sep 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Noggin
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 26 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks guys, and binge, thanks for that last bit of advice. That's the sort of thing I could forget!

It'll be an interesting project at least.

Although, having just found out I'm not fully comp, I also need to work out how to fix the zx12r, money wise I mean...


Craig G(Noggin)
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Old Bike: honda NSR 125 1998
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 27 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not to completely piss on your project, why do you want to junk the starter motor from the R6 anyway?

May as well run the electric start just in case you stall it on the grid at the start of the race or whatever.

Just seems to be introducing hassle for no real reason.

(Something like a lawnmower engine/motor would be ample I expect)
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 27 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:
Not to completely piss on your project, why do you want to junk the starter motor from the R6 anyway?

May as well run the electric start just in case you stall it on the grid at the start of the race or whatever.

Just seems to be introducing hassle for no real reason.

(Something like a lawnmower engine/motor would be ample I expect)


Also check with the intended club first, as FIA supersport ruleamagigs state you must have a working onboard starter that is still capable of starting the bike at the end of the race.

If it is an old 5EB R6, then you CAN however remove the generator and most of the flywheel - making a 'total loss' system, its a PITA, but will give you more neds and a coupa kilos less weight!! Thumbs Up
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 28 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:


Also check with the intended club first, as FIA supersport ruleamagigs state you must have a working onboard starter that is still capable of starting the bike at the end of the race.



+1, same for superstock.

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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 28 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
It may be easier just to take the drive train from a scooter and mount it in a frame.
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Noggin
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 28 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am aware of the bemsee rules but I need something to keep me busy for the next 6 weeks. I'm not sure I'm going to run an ignition-less system on the R6 yet because of the rules but at the same time its a shame there's not a class that would allow me to run a 600 to this sort of tune competetively.

Powerbikes seems to favour 1000s so there's no point entering on a 600. But really and truthfully the starter is more of a project to keep me busy and something a bit fun.

Craig G(Noggin)
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 28 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Noggin wrote:
I'm not sure I'm going to run an ignition-less system on the R6 yet because of the rules


eh??? Eh?
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Noggin
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 28 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry, pain killers knocking me out!

Whether I'm going to run a system without a starter motor opposed to running one with and keeping the ignition barrel.

Craig G(Noggin)
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 28 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Noggin wrote:
Sorry, pain killers knocking me out!

Whether I'm going to run a system without a starter motor opposed to running one with and keeping the ignition barrel.

Craig G(Noggin)


Why wouldn't you take the ignition off??? Thinking
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 29 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:


Why wouldn't you take the ignition off??? Thinking


+1 Bemsee rules state you can remove/ unplug unused parts of the loom i.e., horn, clutch switch, ignition barrel, provided you don't cut the loom.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 09:39 - 29 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:
Blue_SV650S wrote:


Why wouldn't you take the ignition off??? Thinking


+1 Bemsee rules state you can remove/ unplug unused parts of the loom i.e., horn, clutch switch, ignition barrel, provided you don't cut the loom.


Is that even right? You can strip unused wires from the loom, you can even fit a race loom can't you Thinking
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 29 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:

Is that even right? You can strip unused wires from the loom, you can even fit a race loom can't you Thinking


Yep, in superstock you can use the race loom(IIRC), but if you're using the OE loom you can't cut it. Crazy isn't it.

Taken directly from MRO Stocksport (Superstock) regs:

1.6.13 Wiring Harness
- The original wire-loom may be modified as indicated hereafter:
- The unused wire loom elements supplying current to direction indicators, horn, ignition contact and key lock
etc. may be unplugged and/or removed (no cutting allowed)
- Cutting of the wiring harness is not allowed but to disconnect connectors is allowed.
- The wiring harness may only be used for the purpose it is homologated for unless stated in these regulations.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 29 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:
Blue_SV650S wrote:

Is that even right? You can strip unused wires from the loom, you can even fit a race loom can't you Thinking


Yep, in superstock you can use the race loom(IIRC), but if you're using the OE loom you can't cut it. Crazy isn't it.

Taken directly from MRO Stocksport (Superstock) regs:

1.6.13 Wiring Harness
- The original wire-loom may be modified as indicated hereafter:
- The unused wire loom elements supplying current to direction indicators, horn, ignition contact and key lock
etc. may be unplugged and/or removed (no cutting allowed)
- Cutting of the wiring harness is not allowed but to disconnect connectors is allowed.
- The wiring harness may only be used for the purpose it is homologated for unless stated in these regulations.


cool Thumbs Up

So strip back/take whatever off you like, just don't use the side cutters at any point!! Wink

I should imagine the no-cutting rule is there to try and reduce the risk of fire?!!?
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 29 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:


So strip back/take whatever off you like, just don't use the side cutters at any point!! Wink

I should imagine the no-cutting rule is there to try and reduce the risk of fire?!!?


I would presume so yes. Thumbs Up

To the OP, this bit has been mentioned, but just so you know:

1.6.33 Generators
- The electric starter must operate normally at pre and post race inspections. The engine must start and run
when the electric starter has stopped its procedure.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 29 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
To make a starter all you need is a lawnmower, a go kart wheel (and tyre) with its axle, bearings and sprocket carrier - and some welding!! Thumbs Up
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