Dodgey MOT - does anyone know how to make a claim?

[Graprilia]

My little brother brought his first car about 3 weeks ago for £1,000 with 12 months MOT.

Yesterday we noticed it was leaking something, so took it to our local garage to get it serviced. After an hour our mechanic rings and says this car is not road legal its leaking break fulid and he had a huge list of problems and he stated clearly no way should this of passed a MOT 3 weeks ago.

So what can i do? because obviously my brother is £1,000 down and had been driving a car that was not in useable condition.
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Piaggo liberty 125 SOLD - CBR 125 - SOLD Aprilia RS 125 - SOLD CBR 400 NC29 - SOLD ZX6R currently own https://bikepics.com/members/Graprilia/

[Faldo]

Was it bought from private seller or a trader?
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Current: ZZR1400
Previous: ZXR 400 L9, ZX-7R P5, ZZR 400, ZX-7R P6, Bandit 600, GSXR 750 Slingshot, DRZ400, DR650, ZX10R C1H, ZXR 750 L1, ZXR 750 L3, '99 ZX7R P4, KTM 300 EXC, ZX-9R E1, TDM850

[Graprilia]

Private seller
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Piaggo liberty 125 SOLD - CBR 125 - SOLD Aprilia RS 125 - SOLD CBR 400 NC29 - SOLD ZX6R currently own https://bikepics.com/members/Graprilia/

[Chris750]

Unfortunately if your brother purchased it "sold as seen" then it will be difficult to take it up with the seller as far as I know

[Faldo]

Hmmm, well that rules out asking for a refund (unless you can prove that the seller knew about the defects and covered them up, which is highly unlikely).

Personally, I would take the vehicle to the MOT station that passed it. Tell them that it should never of passed and see if they are willing to sort out the defects to avoid you contacting VOSA.

If you just go straight to VOSA and report them you're still going to be left with a defective vehicle that needs £££s spending on it.
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Current: ZZR1400
Previous: ZXR 400 L9, ZX-7R P5, ZZR 400, ZX-7R P6, Bandit 600, GSXR 750 Slingshot, DRZ400, DR650, ZX10R C1H, ZXR 750 L1, ZXR 750 L3, '99 ZX7R P4, KTM 300 EXC, ZX-9R E1, TDM850

[Graprilia]

When i say private i mean a guy who has a small workshop from which he sells 2nd hand cars.

Apparently they will collect the car to have a look at, but if they did that i dont think we would ever see the car again, so thats not an option.

I believe hes paid his mate who has an MOT station around the corner to pass it,.knowing full well its not road safe.And at his workshop he has tried to cover up any obvious defects to make some quick money.
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Piaggo liberty 125 SOLD - CBR 125 - SOLD Aprilia RS 125 - SOLD CBR 400 NC29 - SOLD ZX6R currently own https://bikepics.com/members/Graprilia/

[.Chris.]

If he's a trader then you've got some comeback under the Sale of Goods Act as the goods are not of 'satisfactory quality'.
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[syl]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Graprilia]

[lostboy]

[Graprilia]

But surely seeing as the VOSA MOT certificae is a legal document then the fact the rear chasis has completely rusted they have broken the law by passing it.
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Piaggo liberty 125 SOLD - CBR 125 - SOLD Aprilia RS 125 - SOLD CBR 400 NC29 - SOLD ZX6R currently own https://bikepics.com/members/Graprilia/

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Graprilia]

Ive just emailed VOSA so i will see what they say.
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Piaggo liberty 125 SOLD - CBR 125 - SOLD Aprilia RS 125 - SOLD CBR 400 NC29 - SOLD ZX6R currently own https://bikepics.com/members/Graprilia/

[Faldo]

Really you need to be doing something about the bloke who sold you the vehicle. VOSA investigating the MOT station isn't going to help you out much.

It's hard to tell whether the seller of the vehicle is a trader or not from the info given, but if he's selling cars on a regular basis for profit he is a trader. If he's not told Inland Revenue about his income you have a bargaining chip there. If I were you I'd speak to Trading Standards. If he is a registered trader they should be able to help you out, if not they can point you in the right direction (probably CAB).

Just out of interest what vehicle is it, and what are the newly discovered faults? It might be worth repairing it yourself if it's just a split brake hose or leaky wheel cylinder TBH.
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Current: ZZR1400
Previous: ZXR 400 L9, ZX-7R P5, ZZR 400, ZX-7R P6, Bandit 600, GSXR 750 Slingshot, DRZ400, DR650, ZX10R C1H, ZXR 750 L1, ZXR 750 L3, '99 ZX7R P4, KTM 300 EXC, ZX-9R E1, TDM850

[Graprilia]

[Phoenix]

Does the MOT certificate say if there was an advisory sheet issues, if it does has it been 'lost', it's possible leaking brake fluid was masked for the MOT only to appear later and the rust may not be bad enough to fail the MOT. You can retreive lost advisories and details on all previous electronic MOTs by using the online MOT website, might be helpful.

Otherwise if it is a genuine nail then I suggest you go back to the seller and ask for a fix or a refund, if he is going to take the car off you then you want everything in writing so he doesn't just keep it for a couple of weeks, then give it back as he can then just claim you've had it for a couple of weeks without trouble. Signing a document saying sold as seen doesn't absolve the seller of any responsibility for selling a shed if he's misled you as it can be seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid blame if you took him to court over it.

Either way you need to think about what you do carefully, you want results so the place to start is the seller, you've already ignored advice and gone straight to VOSA which as mentioned is no good to you, they have no interest in your transaction just in investigating a possibly dodgy MOT station, that should've been kept as a card to play later if needed.

[Graprilia]

[Graprilia]

here is what the history states online:-

Date of test: 05/10/2009
Certificate issue refused (Fail)
Odometer reading: 106,336 Miles
Test class: IV
Reason(s) for refusal to issue Certificate
Windscreen washer provides insufficient washer liquid (8.2.3)
Nearside Windscreen wiper does not clear the windscreen effectively (8.2.2)
Offside Windscreen wiper does not clear the windscreen effectively (8.2.2)
Advisory Notice issued
Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2a)
Windscreen has damage to an area less than a 40mm circle outside zone 'A' (8.3.1d)
Offside Rear Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.D.1)
Offside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.D.1)
Nearside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.D.1)
Offside Front Seat belt slight fluffing or fraying (5.1.B.2b)
Brake hydraulic reservoir fluid close to minimum level (3.6.C.1e)
Nearside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Offside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Nearside Rear Radius arm has slight play in a pin bearing (2.4.G.3)
Service brake Your vehicle has only just met the required service brake efficiency. It would appear that the braking system requires adjustment or repair. (3.7.A.8)


Test expiry date: 07/10/2010
Advisory Notice issued
Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2a)
Windscreen has damage to an area less than a 40mm circle outside zone 'A' (8.3.1d)
Offside Rear Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.D.1)
Offside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.D.1)
Nearside Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.D.1)
Offside Front Seat belt slight fluffing or fraying (5.1.B.2b)
Brake hydraulic reservoir fluid close to minimum level (3.6.C.1e)
Nearside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Offside Front Brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Nearside Rear Radius arm has slight play in a pin bearing (2.4.G.3)

And we werent told anything about this.
____________________
Piaggo liberty 125 SOLD - CBR 125 - SOLD Aprilia RS 125 - SOLD CBR 400 NC29 - SOLD ZX6R currently own https://bikepics.com/members/Graprilia/

[Cigaro]

Are you sure your mechanic isn't just playing this up?

For instance, if the subframe is actually rotted *through*, it's dangerous, but a bit of surface rust is nothing to worry about (really these shouldn't rust at all as AFAIK they have galvanised bodies?)

For £1000 I'd expect it to be no more than 9-10 years old, too, so that's another factor in the rust thing.

Obviously a brake fluid leak is dangerous, easy fix though, it depends where it's leaking from.

Also an MOT only means the car is roadworthy on the day it passes, nothing else.

This is why, if you don't know about cars, you should always take someone who does to look at it before you buy it!

What else does the mechanic say is wrong?

edit: For some reason I thought it was a Peugeot 106. Ignore what I said about galvanised bodies.

[Ste]

The car obviously is in a usable condition seeing as your brother has been using it.

Did your brother notice anything wrong with the car before your local garage pointed things out? Did your brother not look the car over before buying it? Seeing as most of those advisory points are things which are pretty obvious your brother was probably expecting to have to spend money on it soon.

"And we werent told anything about this." so what? A seller is under no obligation to tell people about MOT advisories.

Caveat emptor.

[Graprilia]

UPDATE.
After spending a very long time on the phone yesterday the situation is now as follows:-

Seller - will not take responsibilty and blames the MOT place, but admitted destroying the advisory notes.

MOT place - have admitted not re doing the MOT after if failed the 1st time and just took the sellers word he had done all the work necessary - UNBELIEVEABLE.

MOT place have taken the car back and now have to fix all the issues FOC or they could be in serious trouble with VOSA.
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Piaggo liberty 125 SOLD - CBR 125 - SOLD Aprilia RS 125 - SOLD CBR 400 NC29 - SOLD ZX6R currently own https://bikepics.com/members/Graprilia/

[carvell]

[.Chris.]

It does seem a little strange that one person is claiming the car is completely rotten and about to fall apart, yet another garage (admittedly of questionable quality) claim that it's OK. Could be that the mechanic is inventing or exaggerating problems.

If it's leaking brake fluid then obviously that's not safe and needs to be fixed, but the problem may not have been severe enough to fail an MOT three weeks ago. As already said, an MOT certificate only means it met the requirements when examined.

As for advisories, your brother should have asked to see the advisory notices, given that there's now a box on the certificate stating whether or not any were issued.

If you don't have enough knowledge of cars to make a decision about its condition, perhaps see if there's any MOT test centres nearby that don't carry out repairs (therefore no vested interest in failing a good vehicle). Some councils run these. You could get them to check it over or even put it through another MOT test and see what they say.
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Nb]

Maybe im reading this wrong but