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edeaton
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shadowbiker
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Poseidon
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| Ingah |
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Ingah
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edeaton
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map
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| Ol |
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Ol
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 Posted: 12:07 - 05 Jan 2010  Post subject: |
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| shadowbiker wrote: | If i had my way i would have a disc lock and a huge concreated post in my garage to chain my bikes up. |
And some boxes with lids on, to but your Fireblade parts into??
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Previous: Cub50, NRG50, TS50, YB100, CB125, NSR125, ZZR600, CBF1000, SV650s, ZX6R B1H, XT250, Mito Powered Crosser, WRF450, , FZ600, VN800, GSXR600 - Currently CB1000R |
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smegballs
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Poseidon
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| Posted: 17:30 - 05 Jan 2010 Post subject: |
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| Ingah wrote: | Almax 5/5.
Oxford 1/5 (often expensive AND ineffective - i don't believe in paying £150 for a bolt-croppable chain!).
Almax chain (because if it can be bolt-cropped like 90% of chains on the market can, then it's useless imo) attached through frame of the bike to immovable object is my favoured method, but best combined with a motion sensing alarm system so that anyone standing close enough to the chain to attack it will set the alarm off so i know they're there.
Don't see disc-locks as much more than a kiddie deterrent and for false sense of security (easily smashed off, and doesn't stop the bike being lifted!)
Tagging systems are no good on their own, but combined with good physical/electrical security do help deter professionals. |
It's cost benefit IMO. The bike cost me £700 (worth £1200-£1500 now it's MOT'd) and it's not exactly a "disirable" bike to theifs. Agree about ALMAX chains wholeheartedly, but for the £200+ they cost for chain/lock/anchor, I don't see the point for now. The set I've got cost me a tenner and a pint from a friend of a friend and the disc-lock was 20quid... When my renewal comes through, they'll have paid for themselves (also when I checked, ALMAX didn't qualify for the reduced premiums as they aren't sold-secure or summat  )
Problem is that all security has its weaknesses and will not deter the determined pro (for example a grinder gets through an almax chain in very little time and the entry time on most alarms will give a thief who knows what they're doing enough time to disable the sounder). All you can do is put off the chancers, which is what my stuff will do. My chief criteria for security is:
Hi-Vis (flourescent yellow disc lock does the trick)
Tested to cope with the most common methods a theif uses
Easy to use/store/carry
universal fit for all bikes, as I have a habit of changing my vehicles fairly regularly
When I finally save up enough to get the '04 Daytona 955i I dream about, I will invest in an almax chain and a garage alarm, but for now I don't see the point.
Drew
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring) |
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| Ingah |
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Ingah
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| Posted: 21:56 - 05 Jan 2010 Post subject: |
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| Mister Drewie wrote: |
It's cost benefit IMO. The bike cost me £700 (worth £1200-£1500 now it's MOT'd) and it's not exactly a "disirable" bike to theifs.
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My current bike - CB500 - 'value' is under £800. I bought the Almax Series 3 1.5m with the CISA lock @ £135, to protect my previous bike, the CG125, which cost me £500 (and now use it to protect my CB5). Excessive? Possibly. However it is about near-outright prevention with me as both bikes were worth alot more than that to me than to any thief as i look after them very, very well mechanically - id've have to spend much more £££ and time to find a bike that's as well-looked after as mine are. If i got a payout for my bike's "market" value i'd be gutted. I'm young, and i have old bikes. So insurance is a particular waste of time in my case (normally seems more faff than it's worth anyway). And more importantly, i know everything's fixed on my current vehicles - with another "equivalent" bike it would be an unknown - something could break on me - but i've pretty much fixed it all on my CB5.
Another "benefit" is that i won't have to upgrade through the chains. You'll buy one in the end, so why not now and be done with it 
And of course, the virtual elimination of the risk of suffering a bike theft (unless of course i annoy someone enough that they will steal my bike to get back at me, in which case they could camp my house etc to get the desired result - so not total elimination) and the associated problems and heartache (save through any abject stupidity from myself, which i'm not generally prone to)
| Mister Drewie wrote: |
(also when I checked, ALMAX didn't qualify for the reduced premiums as they aren't sold-secure or summat |
According to Almax's website, they are Thatcham approved, and usually come up on insurance company quote engines (if not, just get on the blower imo). I am aware this didn't used to be the case.
| Mister Drewie wrote: | (for example a grinder gets through an almax chain in very little time and the entry time on most alarms will give a thief who knows what they're doing enough time to disable the sounder). |
I asked Almax this question "assuming the very best professionals, with the very best tools, started attacking my [Almax 3 i was purchasing at time], with no concern over how much noise they make, how long would it take them to break it?". The response was "90 seconds". He seemed pretty sure (it wasn't an "ummm, arrr... about..." response). Of course, i "could" have been outright lied to - but i'm far more believing of Almax than the other manufacturers - especially in light of the crap the other manufacturers term "security".
And not quite sure regarding entry time. I was under the impression bike alarms go off immediately - mine certainly does. And tbh i'd say job well done even if it does only go off for 5 seconds, as that 5 seconds is long enough to tell me someone outside wants to play cricket.
| Mister Drewie wrote: | All you can do is put off the chancers, which is what my stuff will do. |
Yes, although anyone with a bolt-cropper will have your bike in the bike of the tranny van in no time. And more importantly, you won't hear a thing even if it's right outside your window. You've got greater exposure - or "risk". The 90 seconds i've got (that's without the extra few seconds it takes afterwards to lift the bike into the van) is long enough to wake up, get out of bed, put some shoes on, pick up a large blunt object and... you know the rest.
| Mister Drewie wrote: |
When I finally save up enough to get the '04 Daytona 955i I dream about, I will invest in an almax chain and a garage alarm, but for now I don't see the point. |
You have to declare losses/thefts to all future insurers, and they will jack your prices up as a result. Otherwise, see above. Maybe it's not enough to convince you to go all the way with security, but it was for me.
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| Poseidon |
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Poseidon
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| smegballs |
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smegballs
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| Posted: 09:55 - 06 Jan 2010 Post subject: |
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| Mister Drewie wrote: | Wasn't having a go fella... Like I said, it's cost benefit. Your bikes mean a lot to you both financially and sentimentally so you want to protect them as best you can. I love my bike and would be gutted if it was stolen, but £200+ is too much. Also the OP is after peoples motives when buying security, not the relative merits of each individuals security measures. My motives when investing security devices are; cheap, recognised by insurers, hi-vis and able to protect my bike to a certain degree (the old addage that a chancer will nick a non-protected bike over a protected one). I'm not overly fussed about real world tests as, like I said, all security can be gotten around quite easily and you'll never put off the pros. |
My bikes are all sub 500 quid shitters so 135 on a chain is unviable!
With low value bikes like mine, the only ones who are gonna nick it are kids you don't know what its worth. Obviously the pro's in the game know what is worth how much and wont give a battered old ZZR a second look, its simply not worth their time.
So if the pro's don't want it then a few chains and such to keep chavs away are all I really need, maybe an alarm if I feel a bit special (I don't like bike alarms tho, so wouldn't have anything more than a noise making vibration detector.). |
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| Poseidon |
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Poseidon
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| Posted: 10:16 - 06 Jan 2010 Post subject: |
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| Bittern wrote: | My bikes are all sub 500 quid shitters so 135 on a chain is unviable!
With low value bikes like mine, the only ones who are gonna nick it are kids you don't know what its worth. Obviously the pro's in the game know what is worth how much and wont give a battered old ZZR a second look, its simply not worth their time.
So if the pro's don't want it then a few chains and such to keep chavs away are all I really need, maybe an alarm if I feel a bit special (I don't like bike alarms tho, so wouldn't have anything more than a noise making vibration detector.). |
Precisely... A chav would need something a bit more substantial than a pair of secateurs nicked from his mums greenhouse to get through my oxford chain. The type of cropper needed to crop these chains are 3-4foot long, not the sort of thing an amatuer/chancer carries, and chances are not the only thing in a pro thiefs inventory.
As far as alarms are concerned, I've heard of all sorts being done. Examples being; sounders disconnected (on garage alarms), alarms being set off repeatedly by a thief to make the owner think it's an electrical fault and therefore leave the alarm deactivated, waiting until the owner is not at home and I've even heard of bike thieves using quilts and sleeping bags to muffle the alarm whilst loading it into the back of a van.
Perhaps instead of asking what we look for in security devices for our bikes, the OP should ask for examples of how bike thieves get around current safety devices and work out ways to prevent them from doing so (although anything short of razorwire and 24/7 armed guards with big scary dogs may have it's weaknesses)
Drew
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring) |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 16 years, 44 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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