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Insurance one more time - explain legal expenses cover to me

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Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 04 Oct 2010    Post subject: Insurance one more time - explain legal expenses cover to me Reply with quote
Ok, looking at insurance and quotes seem to add on legal cover. Some include it some don't. I can get a reasonable value then find £30 or so added to it when clicking the buy button for legal cover.

If I already have bought legal cover for one policy do I need to buy it again for a different policy with a different broker/insurer?

...and if necessary where can I buy this independently. I've come across forum entries quoting as low as £5 for cars (but nothing via google for bikes).

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ian789
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Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 04 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can get any ambulance chaser to give you the same service for free.

No need to pay extra for nothing.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 04 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Legal cover is basically a scam.

All your insurance company does is pass your claim to a no-win-no-fee solicitor who pays them for the referral. You'd be much better off choosing a solicitor yourself, based on their credentials and such like rather than the solicitor being chosen by the insurance company based on who was willing to pay the most for referrals.
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Cheeseybeaner
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Joined: 15 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 04 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Legal cover is basically a scam.

All your insurance company does is pass your claim to a no-win-no-fee solicitor who pays them for the referral. You'd be much better off choosing a solicitor yourself, based on their credentials and such like rather than the solicitor being chosen by the insurance company based on who was willing to pay the most for referrals.


Most legal expenses policies allow you to nominate your own solicitor as required, certainly my policy allows this although they will choose their own if you have no preference.
It simply means you are covered to a set amount of legal costs, usually up to 50k which you can use to defend yourself in the event of a claim. To my mind this is a pretty useful facility and allows you to direct the claim to a certain extent rather than have the insurance company wrap it up as it sees fit.
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 04 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
What does it offer you over just going to a solicitor of your choice?
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
What does it offer you over just going to a solicitor of your choice?

I think it's the £50K to £100K legal cost cover for the solicitors to make a claim against the other party. So in lawyer speak that's about a couple hours work! I'm sure they earn it Rolling Eyes

Goto The Bike Insurer insurance comparison site (appears to use the same engine as the Tesco one!) and they're offering free legal cover just for getting a quote.

Summary page click here:
If you have an accident then this policy gives you free access to:
* A recovery service for you and your Van
* Repair of your vehicle
* Hire of a replacement Bike
* Up to £50,000 of legal cover to cover the costs of seeking compensation from the party at fault
* A 24/7 freephone service to report your accident

Probably a pain to claim and the cynic in me thinks they'll be a gettout clause/payment required as there is no such thing as a free lunch.

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Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger? Very Happy
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multijoy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
[Summary page click here:
If you have an accident then this policy gives you free access to:
* A recovery service for you and your Van
* Repair of your vehicle
* Hire of a replacement Bike
* Up to £50,000 of legal cover to cover the costs of seeking compensation from the party at fault
* A 24/7 freephone service to report your accident


All of which your reputable ambulance chaser will give you for free (as part of a conditional fee arrangment, which is not quite the same as being free, but close enough).
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silky666: He rode amazingly well considering his bike is the weight of a small van and had slicks on.
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iooi
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
And if you are on FC you have no need for any of that as, its included in your policy. The only bit your ins won't deal with is claiming your excess back......

Its just a away for them to screw even more money out of you.
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ian789
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Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey map do you want to buy a bottle of fresh air of me for £30?

I'll throw in a few grass cuttings Thumbs Up

This is basically what there doing Laughing

Was this you? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-11476851

Last edited by ian789 on 13:50 - 05 Oct 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
Summary page click here:
If you have an accident then this policy gives you free access to:
* A recovery service for you and your Van
* Repair of your vehicle
* Hire of a replacement Bike
* Up to £50,000 of legal cover to cover the costs of seeking compensation from the party at fault
* A 24/7 freephone service to report your accident

You can get better than that by going to a no win no fee solicitor working on a conditional fee agreement. Thumbs Up
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Cheeseybeaner
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Joined: 15 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
What does it offer you over just going to a solicitor of your choice?


It offers legal costs covered without having to pay out from your own pocket in the event of a 'failed' claim.
Without this facility your insurers can more or less deal with any claim against you or on your behalf as they see fit, using whoever they deem to be appropriate which may or may not be in your favour...
Most solicitors require assured cover for their legal costs, and would seldom take on a case they don't believe they have any chance of winning and therefore having their costs returned to them.
Its pretty hard to defend yourself if you don't have the means to pay for it and the claim is perhaps unclear in liability terms.
This is what makes legal expenses cover useful as it removes any need for you to pay solicitors bills, and the requirement for them to see 'worth' in taking on your claim which is a prerequisite for the 'no win no fee' type legal outfit.
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Imonster
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Joined: 18 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheeseybeaner wrote:
Ste wrote:
What does it offer you over just going to a solicitor of your choice?


It offers legal costs covered without having to pay out from your own pocket in the event of a 'failed' claim.
Without this facility your insurers can more or less deal with any claim against you or on your behalf as they see fit, using whoever they deem to be appropriate which may or may not be in your favour...
Most solicitors require assured cover for their legal costs, and would seldom take on a case they don't believe they have any chance of winning and therefore having their costs returned to them.
Its pretty hard to defend yourself if you don't have the means to pay for it and the claim is perhaps unclear in liability terms.
This is what makes legal expenses cover useful as it removes any need for you to pay solicitors bills, and the requirement for them to see 'worth' in taking on your claim which is a prerequisite for the 'no win no fee' type legal outfit.


Doesn't your TP insurance cover claims against yourself anyway? So costs would only mount if you insisted on following an unwinnable claim.

If the no win no fee solicitors won't take on your case, then it's probably because you'd lose it. If you insisted on persuing the case, that could perhaps be seen as foolhardy because you were disregarding professional opinion.

If you had legal cover, if it were clear that the incident was your fault your solicitors and insurance company would settle asap in order to minimise costs.


I can't see the advantage to paying 30 quid extra on my policy (equivelant of about 40% extra on my premium) for something that seems effectively worthless, unless I'm being massively hard of thinking tonight - which is entirely possible. It's been a long day.
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Cheeseybeaner
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 05 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:

Doesn't your TP insurance cover claims against yourself anyway? So costs would only mount if you insisted on following an unwinnable claim.

If the no win no fee solicitors won't take on your case, then it's probably because you'd lose it. If you insisted on persuing the case, that could perhaps be seen as foolhardy because you were disregarding professional opinion.

If you had legal cover, if it were clear that the incident was your fault your solicitors and insurance company would settle asap in order to minimise costs.


I disagree, the legal expenses policy allows you far more room to defend yourself while avoiding the insurance companies natural desire to settle it as cheaply as possible.
A solicitor is far more likely to work hard in your favour if he knows that his expenses are met by your policy rather than being dependent on a win.
In my experience legal expenses has helped a great deal.
A no win no fee solicitor will always reduce your effective payout as they will levy fees on to you, with a legal expenses policy you are effectively entitled to 'all of it.'
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iooi
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 06 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheeseybeaner wrote:
A solicitor is far more likely to work hard in your favour if he knows that his expenses are met by your policy rather than being dependent on a win.
'


You do know that the Co's that take the ins cases tender for the right to be able to get them.
Their fee's won't be paid by your ins co.

I posted this before....

I was rear ended in my car. Spoke to my broker who passed it onto a legal co.
I though this was strange as I was FC, but he said it was so I could reclaim the excess.
After a while of no progress I visited his ofifce and spoke to a staff member about my case. It was let slip that the legal co, was actually run by the guys son and he was feeding him cases...
Suffice to say the Ins co was not impressed when I contacted them about my claim and the fact that it had been passed in such a fashion.
Never dealt with him again and will never ever touch legal ins from knowing just how these companies get the cases.
Far better to go to a decent bikers orientated company, that have staff that know how to handle a bike claim, not one that is simply taking it on because its a payer.....
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Cheeseybeaner
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 06 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:

You do know that the Co's that take the ins cases tender for the right to be able to get them.
Their fee's won't be paid by your ins co.

I posted this before....

I was rear ended in my car. Spoke to my broker who passed it onto a legal co.
I though this was strange as I was FC, but he said it was so I could reclaim the excess.
After a while of no progress I visited his ofifce and spoke to a staff member about my case. It was let slip that the legal co, was actually run by the guys son and he was feeding him cases...
Suffice to say the Ins co was not impressed when I contacted them about my claim and the fact that it had been passed in such a fashion.
Never dealt with him again and will never ever touch legal ins from knowing just how these companies get the cases.
Far better to go to a decent bikers orientated company, that have staff that know how to handle a bike claim, not one that is simply taking it on because its a payer.....


And that's exactly how I used the legal expenses policy to use RSS.
They will have much less trouble representing you if they know their costs are covered by your legal expenses policy. There is no reason to accept the insurer's default choice of solicitor.
On a no win no fee basis you will always sacrifice a certain amount of pay out to the firm that took on your case, under most legal expenses policies you are covered for all costs.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 06 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheeseybeaner wrote:
Ste wrote:
What does it offer you over just going to a solicitor of your choice?


It offers legal costs covered without having to pay out from your own pocket in the event of a 'failed' claim.

Does it offer anything over just going to a solicitor of your choice because you don't have to pay anything in the event of a failed claim when you're being represented by a solicitor of your choice working on a conditional fee agreement. You also won't have to pay anything if you win if the solicitor gets their bill paid directly from the insurance company.

Legal cover doesn't offer anything that you can't get by going to solicitors and being represented on a no win no fee basis.
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Cheeseybeaner
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Joined: 15 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 06 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Does it offer anything over just going to a solicitor of your choice because you don't have to pay anything in the event of a failed claim when you're being represented by a solicitor of your choice working on a conditional fee agreement. You also won't have to pay anything if you win if the solicitor gets their bill paid directly from the insurance company.

Legal cover doesn't offer anything that you can't get by going to solicitors and being represented on a no win no fee basis.


It does if they're reluctant to take on the claim as they don't see it worthwhile or worried they will be unable to recover their costs - unless of course you are willing to pay their fees yourself.
In this sense legal expense cover gives you greater freedom and surety that you will be able to represent yourself no matter what.
In my experience I was able to quote the wording of my policy to ensure that my claim was seen through to its eventual positive outcome, despite the negative view of it the insurers had.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 06 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheeseybeaner wrote:
Quote:
Does it offer anything over just going to a solicitor of your choice because you don't have to pay anything in the event of a failed claim when you're being represented by a solicitor of your choice working on a conditional fee agreement. You also won't have to pay anything if you win if the solicitor gets their bill paid directly from the insurance company.

Legal cover doesn't offer anything that you can't get by going to solicitors and being represented on a no win no fee basis.


It does if they're reluctant to take on the claim as they don't see it worthwhile or worried they will be unable to recover their costs - unless of course you are willing to pay their fees yourself.
In this sense legal expense cover gives you greater freedom and surety that you will be able to represent yourself no matter what.
In my experience I was able to quote the wording of my policy to ensure that my claim was seen through to its eventual positive outcome, despite the negative view of it the insurers had.

If they win or lose, solicitors will be able to recover their costs because if they're working on a conditional fee agreement then they'll also have after the event insurance. It would never get to a situation of having to decide if you're willing to pay their fees yourself.
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Cheeseybeaner
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Joined: 15 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 06 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
[/quote]
If they win or lose, solicitors will be able to recover their costs because if they're working on a conditional fee agreement then they'll also have after the event insurance. It would never get to a situation of having to decide if you're willing to pay their fees yourself.[/quote]

Possibly but I believe legal expenses insurance allows you greater leeway and also gives you a far clearer view of your rights when it comes to claims and representation.
Small claims particularly will need less caution knowing that their costs are covered already regardless of the outcome.
It also allows you to hold the insurance firm to account when you can quote your legal expenses policy to them.
'No win no fee' suggests to me there will be a fee if they do win, and that this 'fee' will deplete some of your pay out. If the firm representing you is covered by your legal expenses policy I'd think this means basically 'no fees' win or not.
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Imonster
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Joined: 18 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 06 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheeseybeaner wrote:

'No win no fee' suggests to me there will be a fee if they do win, and that this 'fee' will deplete some of your pay out.


IME the firm recovered their expenses against the TP's insurer - I didn't lose a penny of my payout Confused

We are going back about a decade though, so maybe things have changed?
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