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A video for Hetzer of the police making the law up....

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lllN30lll
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: A video for Hetzer of the police making the law up.... Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=uEpTud4HmhE

Copper called the waaaahhhhhmbulance
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bootsbiker
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool video...
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see the little man not being trod all over for a change Thumbs Up .
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

should have done him for assault
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Benson_JV
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's excellent Thumbs Up
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Frost
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah, i wish i knew enough about the law to do that.
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WildGoose
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I was able to remain as eloquent (possibly the wrong word, not quite that over the top) as him when dealing with them.

It's a game of words and I always end up saying the wrong thing.

That was ridiculously satisfying.

However, if the guy did run a red light (as is the norm for cyclists now) then he was also being a cock. I drive, so cyclist behaviour irritates me every day. Listen to them bleat and whine when they get run into or over, or cut out on a corner because a large HGV trailer has cut in on them where they cannot possibly be seen.

Though not as much of a cock as that particular occifer in this case.

A quiet word like a human being "it's not really in your interest to run a red light, i'd advise you refrain from doing it". Rather than the revenue collection angle.

Not met a human being in Thames Valley police patrols around here recently, for example.
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bootsbiker
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaFrostyOne wrote:
Hah, i wish i knew enough about the law to do that.


+1
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

WildGoose wrote:

A quiet word like a human being "it's not really in your interest to run a red light, i'd advise you refrain from doing it". Rather than the revenue collection angle.


Maybe he would have got words of advice, but when he started getting cocky, saying 'my lawyer told me not say any anything' etc, failed the attitude test straight away!

You don't need to know the law word by word to arrest someone, I wouldn't be able to say off the top of my head the law for GBH, but still arrested someone for it.
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bootsbiker
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

JFK wrote:

You don't need to know the law word by word to arrest someone, I wouldn't be able to say off the top of my head the law for GBH, but still arrested someone for it.


1 of the best reasons to get a camera is because you can use it on some1 else........... even the police...... If yu had a camera in your face wouldn't you think twice about what your are saying...

If you said that to a judge that you didn't know the law what do you think he/she is going to say to you????
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

bootsbiker wrote:

If you said that to a judge that you didn't know the law what do you think he/she is going to say to you????


Maybe I should have worded it better...I know roughly what the law says, and what to look out for, however word for word, I wouldn't have a clue, and wouldn't be expected to know the law. Same as a judge, they wouldn't know every law word by word without looking it up.
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Nai
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coppers a tit for stammering and not behaving as a policeman should. Heres hoping he learned a lesson there, as well as any other coppers watching that.

Cyclist is also a tit for running a red. I am a cyclist myself, respectful and cautious. Its because of nobbers like that (and the nobbers that stereotype all cyclists under the same banner) we have to deal with pointless hate on a day to day basis. Heres hoping he gets knocked down next time.
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Silver
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

JFK wrote:
You don't need to know the law word by word to arrest someone.


Except in this case the copper was onto a hiding for nothing as soon as it was clear he couldn't name any anything. The fact he wasn't speaking with any conviction undermined any authority he may have held almost immediately.

I dare say he'll have been pretty embarrased by the whole thing. His colleague will have chuckled at it and his bosses won't think much of the way he handled himself (certainly not when he got desperate and grabbed at the camera).
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MinhDinh
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyclists don't actually respect the cyc;e police. I saw a copper walk and put his hand out to stop a cyclist who jumped a red light.

The cyclist just rode off fast, and the copper jumped on his bike in 1st gear or some crap, spent ages getting up and looking like a fool, and rode at 10 MPH to catch up to a guy doing 30 or so.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

For someome who said they had been advised to remain silent he had a lot to say.......

I hate cyclists who think they are above the law.

Hopefully next time he runs a red light a nice big artic is comming the other way. Twisted Evil
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bootsbiker
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

JFK wrote:


Maybe I should have worded it better...I know roughly what the law says, and what to look out for, however word for word, I wouldn't have a clue, and wouldn't be expected to know the law. Same as a judge, they wouldn't know every law word by word without looking it up.


ok... But if you was standing in front of a judge and say that you don't know what the law on the reasons to give a fine is bad and they know what a big subject it is. If you say it to some twat jumping red lights on a push bike he is going to laugh a you and say what fine...


Judges have time to read-up on the cases... Police deal with the current situation so they should be able to say to some1 that they are questioning I know what I am talking about and if I don't I will use my radio..

There is no way any1 person can know the whole law.. This is why we have traffic cops and other type of cops who do different things...

blah blah
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John933
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I could get it to play. With out stoping every two second's.
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Silver
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

bootsbiker wrote:
Judges have time to read-up on the cases...


Magistrates are also advised by the Clerk of the Court because they have little law knowledge.
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ryhardcastle
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got pretty pissed off when he came across someone who knew their rights didn't he. Laughing
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WildGoose
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maybe he would have got words of advice, but when he started getting cocky, saying 'my lawyer told me not say any anything' etc, failed the attitude test straight away!


Fair enough, in the days of a clip round the ear and be on your way. It used to be (so i'm told): act humble, say sorry, try to relate to officer (who may actually be human afterall) and get off with a quiet word.

Attitude hasn't made any difference to my dealings with them in the past few years, and I have tried both ways. Priority seems to be on generating revenue, at least for Thames Valley.

It doesn't work that way anymore, bottom line for the cyclist guy in this case was, no details given = no fine. If they don't have your name, they cannot apply any of the statute law to your fiction/corporation (or whatever those liberty folks are peddling now, yet to be proven I believe).
In a car you are fucked, because its a requirement under the road traffic act to provide your details.

Whether or not an individual should feel bound or obliged to be under the control of any particular act of percieved law just because there is a piece of paper somewhere that says so, is another argument entirely.

So chances are somewhere along the line, they will come up with a bullshit statute for cyclists that makes this a requirement. Depends how many cocky cyclists like this the cops run into, if you embarress them too much, word will get around and there will be a new law or amendment to stop them getting shown up. So the percieved benefit of this video could work both ways, both favourably or not so, for joe public.

No officer or official can be expected to know every quote from every law of the thousands there are, the same as any individual cannot learn it all to protect themselves, but a basic grasp certainly helps you have a bit more respect for them.

I don't think it works such that; officer cannot quote the law, therefore officer cannot enforce. I just think in this case the cyclist knew the right things to say to make himself untouchable.

Pretty sure he could have been arrested for something (stand to be corrected), not sure what. You piss them off enough and they will make something up that allows them to. But would that be in anyone's interest.
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have thought that a charge of obstructing a police officer in the course of his duty would not have been inappropriate in those circumstances. The cyclist was behaving like an obnoxious cock and if I had been the cop then I would have given him some truncheon and made the video evidence disappear.
Skulks away and awaits loads of Thumbs Down
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Silver
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obstruction?! Raffles, are you trolling? Wink

"Yes, Mr Officer sir, I deserve a smack around the head for not bending over and accepting your punishment without question."
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colin1
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this was hardly Rodney King.

Legally the cyclist may have been in the right for evading the consequences of running a red light, but morally, he was in the wrong.

It may be a silly law as cyclists can run red lights with little risk if they are careful, but he got caught and just tried to use word games to get off.

To maintain order the police need to bully people into doing as they are told even if there is little or no legal basis.

I think the encounter would have gone rather differently if the camera wasnt there, and the lunge would have happened far earlier.

I believe that actually, a person does have to identify themselves if a police officer asks, although not if a community support officer asks.

I think the cyclists knowledge of the law was just as shaky as the police officers.

I would agree that morally it would be nice if policemen spent more time enabling prosecutions for real offences that result in harm, rather than offences which could lead to harm which provide revenue, but its a lot easier to tax the slightly naughty, than catch the very naughty.
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