How does 'the lean' affect the ride?

[Recluso]

Evenin' all!

It's time for yet another one of Recluso's random, mostly ignorant and slightly stoopid questions. And because it's mostly derived from ignorance and lack of experience, that's why I'm putting it in 'New Riders'.

So. I've been having a look around. A little presumptuous I know (after all I could be doomed to crash and burn... hopefully not literally) but I've been having a nosey to see what's around. And also to get an idea of the sort of thing I'm into (that's what she said).

For kicks and giggles I managed to climb aboard a Ninja and found myself almost horizontal across the tank! Then by comparison on my YBR, I'm almost so painfully vertical that I probably DO have a rod shoved down my spine. This made a question pop up. How does the seating position affect the riding and thereby, the control? Is there a benefit/disadvantage to being sprawled over the tank or are you just dooming yourself to a bad back? This can also apply to the location of the gear shifter/rear brake. For instance, I find it fairly uncomfortable on my YBR and as soon as I change gears/come off the brake, I tuck my toes onto the pegs as this is inifinitely more comfortable for me.

TL;DR: Does the way in which the bike forces you to sit affect your capacity to control it?
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'Just erotic. Nothing kinky. It's the difference between using a feather and using a chicken.'
Honda PS125i > Yamaha YBR125 > Yamaha XJ6 Diversion > Yamaha Tracer 900

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

If the tip of your elbow is close to same height as your grips then that's the optimal position for steering input.

What was the question?
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[Dazbo666]

When riding the Bandit in 30-40mph areas, I tend to sit quite upright. Better all-round visibility, good slow speed control etc

But when riding NSL / motorway speeds, I lean further forward over the tank. Less wind resistance, with what I assume is a slightly lower centre-of-gravity. The bike seems to change direction at speed smoother in this position, and actually feels more natural...

HTH
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1st bike (Sept'06 - May'10) : 1991 GPZ500S / Current bike (since Nov 2009) : 2003 Suzuki Bandit 600N
Word of the day : DILLIGAF

[whitedevil]

https://lolpie.com/images/archive/content/1/3/motorcycle-seating-chart-z6bbc.png



I find leaning forward over the tank helps keep the front wheel on the ground and a lower centre of gravity helps keep the bike stable.
Not forgetting you can save up to 40% more petrol crouching behind the screen.
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GPZ500 sold ~ CBR600FS-2 sold ~ ZX6R sold ~ Street Triple R

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Read This article.
https://www.citybikerblog.com/2007/05/riding-tips-finding-the-right-position/

Keeping a decent level of fitness helps.

[edit] What I mean by that is being flexible. I've worked with 18st (plump) blokes and they can touch their toes fine...Not a pretty sight but you get my drift. The ability to touch your toes and lick ones shoulder is a good test that will be implemented come the revolution.
____________________
Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project

[Recluso]

[Llama-Farmer]

[Teflon-Mike]

Three basic riding possitions; derived unsurprisingly from horse riding.

Jockey: Crouched in a semi-feotal possition, knees up under your chest, heels under arse.

Lancer Feet forward, back reclined, or semi reclined.

[b]Hunter[b] Back straight, legs slightly bent, feet in line with bum.

The jockey possition is for speed. It doesn't offer great control, it keeps your body mass compact, for manouverability, and your head down out of the wind for least wind resistance.

the Lancer possition, was favoured of the heavy horse of medieval cavalry; its greatest advantage was hefting a lance, lying backwards, a strike would defect and shove you more backwards rather than knock your block off, or knock you off the horse in a joust..... erganomically, its not great for control, or that great for comfort, BUT if you decide to play medievil knight with a scafold truck, it might have some advantages.....

the 'Hunter' positrion, is the 'normal' riding possition, for a road journey, back straight, like standing or walking your weight is taken as nature intended through your spine to your hips. Your head is up, and again , in the natural standing possition, able to rotate through all angles or normal movement for 'best' all round visability. Legs 'slightly bent, feet roughly in line with your arse, you support your weight in a verticle access, at bum and feet, and providing good balence, again, much as nature intrended, for a human on his own feet.

It provides the 'best' control, manouverability and visability; comfort wise, it may not be the most 'relaxed' riding possition, like lollong in an armchair; but it is the best posture for avoiding back-ache long term, your body DESIGNED to be held in that 'sort' of posture.

As such it remains pretty much the 'optimum' riding position for most motorcycling persuits.

If you are finding sitting up SO straight oin a YBR 'painful', then you are doing something wrong; & I'd suggest you may be too 'stiff' and tensed up, making it harder work for you.
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[blurredman]

Personally, I find enduro bikes easier to turn- Maybe because being upright means you can control your vertical weight?

It takes a while to lean correctly on a more sporty position I think.
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 51k.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Rogerborg]

[Recluso]

[stinkwheel]

Sitting upright is definately most comfortable and gives you most control. Forearms paralell to the ground allows most steering input.

Heels under your shoulders and balls of feet on footpegs allows you to easily distribute your weight between your feet and your bum. This also makes it easy to "post" where you take all your weight on your feet to stop a pothole/speedbump etc. jarring your back.

Gripping the tank with your legs allows you to keep your arms relaxed and prevents you bracing your weight against the bars under braking.

My Enfield has a sprung saddle which leans slightly forwards forcing me to take some of my weight on my legs. This seemed odd when I first started riding it but it is now very intuative and comfortable and allows me to keep my centre of gravity on the bike dynamic as road conditions demand.

Leaning forwards with your elbows in and legs back is mostly about aerodynamics.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Mikey3]

Watching racing and the different riding positions adopted for varying use of the bike can show you a lot. Conveniently the two positions in question are the two most noticeable in racing (from a non-trained eye)
Notice they're tucked in on the straights, head behind the screen, bum up at the back of the seat or 'head down, bum up' as it's known. This is for maximum speed - reducing overall surface area thus reducing drag.

When they come to a corner they sit up - this is to 1. increase drag and assist with braking, and 2, to increase leverage over the machine turning it into the corner (handling(of course there's the hanging off and knee down blah, but that's irrelivent for this)). This also helps against the gyroscopic effect and the fact that when the bike is gong that fast, is does not want to turn, it 'wants' to carry on straight - the slower you go, the more manouverability is available (without falling over ) and vice versa.

The Ninja is based on a racing style motorcycle, so the aerodynamic shape is for speed, with maximum control compromised a little from the riding position, and comfort too. (everything is a compromise!)

The YBR has no real performance purpose and so is built for maximum control and leverage (and comfort), this is why these types of bikes are very favourable for a learner, learning control of the machine is more important than going flat out . Note the 'exaggerated' sit up position in comparison to the ninja. In this case- compromising aerodyamics..

The bike's purpose will dictate its priorities in terms of comfort/handling/aerodynamics, as you can never have ALL 3 at maximum, one or two will be reduced in favour of the other.

HTH

Mike
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'04 Yamaha WR450F
'99 SV650 Streetfighter Project - mid build
'Motorcycling is about what you do; not about what you own, or how much you spend on it'

[Llama-Farmer]

[Mikey3]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Mikey3]

[Baisemontchou]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Mikey3]

[Llama-Farmer]

[Mikey3]

[Llama-Farmer]