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| parv1 |
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parv1
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| CaNsA |
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CaNsA
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parv1
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| Themightyimp |
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Themightyimp
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CaNsA
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| Marmalade |
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Marmalade
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 Posted: 00:08 - 25 Jun 2012  Post subject: |
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Sounds like one of those superheroes in uniform that tells me i'm dangerous.
Wish i was an invincible rider like them.
____________________
Nobby the Bastard: How yo tell the difference between the actual japanese and her just screaming because she's had live fish stuck up her arse? [url=https://www.nicks-shop.co.uk/bcf-goodies-15-c.aspGet BCF stickers and things here[/url] Reflective helmet stickers - Legal requirement in france - Clicky |
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Themightyimp
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Themightyimp
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CaNsA
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| Themightyimp |
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Themightyimp
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CaNsA
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 00:26 - 25 Jun 2012  Post subject: |
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| Quote: | CBT passed Jan 2011/ Mod 1 booked for July 2012 |
Its a good read, but very prescriptive, though there is warning that there are NO prescriptions for riding a bike at the beginning, and that it is JUST a 'guide' to best practice... though far too many do try and force the prescriptions on situations to 'ride by the book'.
Its 'advanced' riding though and if that comment at the top from your sig-line is true, not reccomended reading yet.
DSA - Official Motorcycling
CBT, Theory & Practical Test
everything you need to know
Is far more relevent, pertinant and useful, while 'follow-on' DSA publication, 'Motorcycling - The Essential Skills' would be 'better' for the level you are at, now and soon after test, it could be called 'Road-Craft The Police Rider's Hand-Book - Made Simple'
Covers the same basics but presumes less pre-knowledge and doesn't get too bogged down in the symantics.
End of the day, all learning is good, its how you use it that can be bad.... " A Little Knowledge is a very dangerouse thing"
Just concentrate on the 'Test' Stuff and getting the 'basics' of technique polished before going further.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Marmalade |
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Marmalade
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Themightyimp
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| parv1 |
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parv1
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| CaNsA |
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CaNsA
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Themightyimp
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CaNsA
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Sload
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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Posted: 04:23 - 25 Jun 2012  Post subject: |
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| Themightyimp wrote: | Just seen his post.
Mistakes do happen.But! the higher you are trained the less likely mistakes will happen.
I'm not going to against Marmalade as I know what he does as a job.
But the simple fact is.COPS are the most highly trained riders in the COUNTRY and the SAFEST. |
No, you are extrapolating the facts beyond tenability.
WHAT exactly makes a rider 'Safe'?
I haven't had an 'off' on the road in two decades, and there are plenty of other civvy riders who can claim the same. Am I 'unsafe', because I am not as highly 'trained' as a police motorcyclist?
I don't even have an advanced riding cert to my name...... (curiousely)
Yes, I first had the Police-Riders 'Pep-Talk' when I was 17, and signed up to do my 'Part 1 & Road' training with some Brummie-Bike-Cops who ran a volunteer bike school.... oh, quarter of a century ago....
"Don't get any silly ideas"said the 'tough-cop'... "Don't care WHAT you ride.... We'll ALWAYS ride you down! We give 'advanced' courses, we get blokes turn up on gixers and ducatti's and all them kinds of things, and we show THEM how to go 'faster' and safer, and look what we ride; BMW R80's, on them"
Following day, I was out with the quieter one, on road training, and playing the brake light game down the lanes outside Knowle....
He pulled me over a couple of times, and fiddled with my bike..... then he pulled me over again, and said he wanted to check the bulbs..... and fiddled again to make sure that my brake lights WORKED, because lamps weren't coming on braking for corners.... which was the object of the 'game'....
"Well theory work" he said, looking at me sideways....."Your not err... planning to get a Gixer of Ducati when you pass test are you?" he said nervously......
Police Riders are HIGHLY TRAINED, and that is ALL you can catagorically say.
Training does NOT mean that they are innately skilled or talented, merely well tutored over a nominal basic competence.
But that means little.... I could be well tutored in Formal Greek Rhetoric.... wouldn't necesserily make me a great public speaker or great novelist.
End of the day, I have to put that training into practice....
And Many Police Riders DO acquire a certain 'arrogance' from their elevated training and believe that they are FAR more 'talented' than they really are, or they become somewhat complacent or lazy, and use their training 'badly'
And there IS a tendency, as mentioned when I suggested Road-Craft being above Newbie level, that it IS written VERY 'precriptively', and attempts to 'proceduralise' act of riding a motorcycle.... that is no co-incident, when it was commissioned, chap tasked to 'compile' it was ex-military and had a back-ground writing military instruction manuals.
It is not the work of 'one-man'; what he did was interview long standing drivers and riders, and compile and edit their 'advice' into a code of best practice.... and the saving grace is that he was NOT so unenlightened as to not recognise that riding a motorcycle is NO like operating an washing machine, where you can simply follow step-by-step instructions, but a very 'intuitive; and involved process of maintaining a constantly changing dynamic 'equilibrium' in a very 'organic' way.... and he provided caveot to this effect...
BUT that is 'lost' on many readers who do try and 'ride by the book' at all times.
And this isn't confined to Police Riders, there are many instructors, professional riders and Advanced Training junkies who are just as guilty.....
Cardington-Clog-Dance or the 'Met-Shuffle:' for approaching a junction, in 2nd gear, assuming safety position at the halt, then reverse footing to select neutral, re-assuming safety, then reverse footing to select first, and re-assuming safety, before pulling away....
Very laborious and 'clumsy' way to deal with a junction..... ALL to avoid sat with the clutch in.....
But THAT is what 'The Book' says is Best Practice...
Newbie trying to ride by the book? Wouldn't get anywhere! Certainly wouldn't pass a test! They'd be failed for not making progress! Every time they saw a gap in traffic to pull away from the junction, by the time they had clogged through the dance, the gap would be gone and they'd have to do it again!
Best 'Practice' maybe, but NOT the 'only' way to deal with the situation, and NOT always the MOST appropriate....
Yet I know riders that will defend it, and insist that you SHOULD do it like that REGARDLESS.....
I Know others who DO, do it regardless, and its not so much because they don't think, but because they have rehearsed it SO much it is second nature and they are so slick that TO THEM, its simply 'natural' and it doesn't hold them up any....
Mistakes do happen, and training SHOULD make them less likely...
Or at LEAST mistakes should NOT be made in 'ignorance'....
But better TRAINING does NOT always instill better judgement.....
And it CAN engender over confidence, and a certain 'arrogance' which, in many cases is JUST as likely, and IS quite prevelant in the 'elitism' of police riders.
So on the WHOLE, yes they are very well trained, frequently highly experienced and usually more than averagely 'competent', but they are still human, and prone to err.
And THAT is as far as you can take the generality.
In individual cases, yes there are many excellent road riders amongst their number... there are also some pretty chronic ones, who POSSIBLY ought to know better! Same as any profession!
But being 'in the profession' doesn't automatically endow elevated 'skill'.
I know many 'professional' mechanics who I wouldn't trust to fix my lawn-mower... yet I also know many 'amateur' mechanics whose skills and expertise, often without a SINGLE formal qualification, is superlative, and they have 'the gift' to build engines that win races, or to restore classic motorcycles to the standard that wins concourse de-elegance....
Sweeping generalities do NOT stand significant scrutiny, and certainly cant be stretched as far as you are trying to!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 08:20 - 25 Jun 2012  Post subject: |
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| Themightyimp wrote: | To my mind Cop bikers Are the best riders as they are the safest,and will out perform ALMOST all bikers on the rd. |
Mmm. Well, they'd certainly agree with you.
To "outperform" another bike, you have to make largely the same decisions and inputs. It's axiomatically hypocritical of a bike copper to closely pursue another bike and then claim that one of them was riding dangerously and the other wasn't. If they can't admit that - and they don't - then it doesn't speak to their ability to honestly appraise their own riding, does it?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| map |
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map
Mr Calendar
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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| Posted: 09:42 - 25 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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Just caught this thread and thought I'd add my  's worth.
First any training is rarely a waste of time. By all means read Roadcraft, as said any information is useful. The police training is good but getting to know your own bike(s) and their and your limitations is always better.
There are useful things like looking ahead, useful for trying to spot the copper hidden in the hedge with a speed gun.
However, IMHO the police think no-one should ride like them regardless of any training courses they run. My lad got stopped for making maximum use of the road width when it was safe to do so. Nothing illegal about it. The police actually teach/taught the technique. Yet a copper on a bike happened to see this and decided to have a word.
Also as said the police do make mistakes. Talking to a bike copper (strangely one without a chip on his shoulder) he said you'd be surprised at the number of police bikes that had been thrown down the road.
This is also an excuse to show the classic picture where the police rider failed in his forward observation and stop in the distance you can see...
https://www.policecaruk.com/ClassicFleet/files/honda1.jpg
https://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/police_bike_concrete.jpg
...apparently this bike was repaired and was/still on the road.
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...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?  |
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Matt B
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| Tomzo47 |
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Tomzo47
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Posted: 10:38 - 25 Jun 2012  Post subject: |
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a quick heads up, the DSA, in another one of their amazing ideas  , have made it so if you did your test but used some police riding tips in there, you're likely to fail, as its not riding to their standards. For instance, police tell people to move out into the crown of the road when its safe when there's a junction to your left to allow more time if anybody pulls out on you. This is a major fault and is a fail, so if I were you, I wouldn't bother looking up any police tips until you've passed your test and have your licence in your hand
____________________
Ybr 125 > Bandit 650SA > GSXR 600 > Triumph Sprint St1050 > CB1300 > Z1000SX + FJ1200 (written off) > VFR750 >FJ1200 |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 12:04 - 25 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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Oh, I'd agree about that. However, it would be a great laugh to hold up a copy of Roadcraft and say "I'll be riding to these standards, got any problems with that?" 
Roadcraft is a useful read, it did made me think about road positioning, and about the approach to junctions. I haven't yet used my horn pre-emptively to get attention (the way it's supposed to be used), but I'm at least prepared to do so now.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 333 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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