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rac3r
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: F1 Valencia Reply with quote
What a race! Great drive by Alonso and Msc on the podium!!!

I said Maldonado would hit him before it happened Laughing
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never thought the words 'what a race' would be said of Valencia, EVER. Even when Mark Webber had to find his emergency parachute a couple of years back, it was still dull. Today, however, was actually decent!


Shame about Lewis. I'm stuck in two minds with it really. One mind says it's better to come in 4th and let the dirty Passwhore Maldospacko through before he punts you into the wall, but the other mind says it's Lewis' line, and a racing driver shouldn't give up a podium that easy.

Realistically, though, I don't think Lewis was going to fend him off til the end, Maldospacktard should have just waited his chance, and all in all it's just another dismal day of McLaren screw ups that have cost their driver a decent shot at the title, again.
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arry
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maldonardo given a 20 second penalty for the Hamilton incident - doesn't really seem enough for me; he loses a point, Hamilton loses 12

Schumacher got a grid drop for the next race for smacking the back doors of Senna in, which seems more fitting
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Maldonardo given a 20 second penalty for the Hamilton incident - doesn't really seem enough for me; he loses a point, Hamilton loses 12

Schumacher got a grid drop for the next race for smacking the back doors of Senna in, which seems more fitting


Maldonado should have been disqualified, I missed the Senna incident what happened?
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arry
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
rac3r wrote:

Maldonado should have been disqualified, I missed the Senna incident what happened?


Sorry, just comparing it to an incident in a previous race - Schumacher basically outbraked himself and smashed the back of Senna's car into 50,000 pieces.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Shame about Lewis. I'm stuck in two minds with it really. One mind says it's better to come in 4th and let the dirty Passwhore Maldospacko through before he punts you into the wall, but the other mind says it's Lewis' line, and a racing driver shouldn't give up a podium that easy.

Realistically, though, I don't think Lewis was going to fend him off til the end, Maldospacktard should have just waited his chance, and all in all it's just another dismal day of McLaren screw ups that have cost their driver a decent shot at the title, again.


This is always the way with Hamilton, he just doesn't see the big picture. I'm not quite sure where he thought Maldonado was going to go as he headed directly for the apex of the left hander.

Yes, Maldonado should not have tagged him, but Hamilton should have left some room on the inside, so as to avoid getting punted off and scoring no points.

As the mantra goes - 'There's no point being in the right if you're dead'.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
This is always the way with Hamilton, he just doesn't see the big picture. I'm not quite sure where he thought Maldonado was going to go as he headed directly for the apex of the left hander.

Yes, Maldonado should not have tagged him, but Hamilton should have left some room on the inside, so as to avoid getting punted off and scoring no points.

As the mantra goes - 'There's no point being in the right if you're dead'.


My thoughts exactly, Hamilton is so aggressive at times it becomes childish. It doesn't hurt the others, it hurts him - sure, Maldonado lost a point, but next time it'll be Massa or Grosjean or anyone else on the grid vs Hamilton and overall he'll just throw it away again.

I still remember last years Canadian Grand Prix where he hit Webber and Button - there was no need, he could have had points but his petulance took over.

The good thing was that it allowed Schumacher on to the podium Smile I like him now he's an old fogey, hated him when he was at the top.


<edit> It might be worth adding that the rules were clarified last year to ensure space was always left on the way into a corner - https://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/67402.html Hamilton squeezed Maldonado off the track on the way out so wouldn't fall foul of this but it's the same spirit - Maldonado had nowhere to go other than off the track, braking at that point may not work as he was cornering. If it were a higher profile driver at a higher profile team then I would expect another 'rule clarification' as it is we'll have to wait til Schumacher does it to Vettel or Alonso for that.

<edit again> and if Hamilton had given Maldonado space into the second apex then Maldonado would've had to give the place back as he went off track to complete the overtake! All in all, Hamilton was a silly boy again.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The real question is, how long before McLaren get sick of him ruining their preparation?
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Fawbish
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
D O G wrote:
This is always the way with Hamilton, he just doesn't see the big picture. I'm not quite sure where he thought Maldonado was going to go as he headed directly for the apex of the left hander.

Yes, Maldonado should not have tagged him, but Hamilton should have left some room on the inside, so as to avoid getting punted off and scoring no points.

As the mantra goes - 'There's no point being in the right if you're dead'.


My thoughts exactly, Hamilton is so aggressive at times it becomes childish. It doesn't hurt the others, it hurts him - sure, Maldonado lost a point, but next time it'll be Massa or Grosjean or anyone else on the grid vs Hamilton and overall he'll just throw it away again.

I still remember last years Canadian Grand Prix where he hit Webber and Button - there was no need, he could have had points but his petulance took over.

The good thing was that it allowed Schumacher on to the podium Smile I like him now he's an old fogey, hated him when he was at the top.


<edit> It might be worth adding that the rules were clarified last year to ensure space was always left on the way into a corner - https://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/67402.html Hamilton squeezed Maldonado off the track on the way out so wouldn't fall foul of this but it's the same spirit - Maldonado had nowhere to go other than off the track, braking at that point may not work as he was cornering. If it were a higher profile driver at a higher profile team then I would expect another 'rule clarification' as it is we'll have to wait til Schumacher does it to Vettel or Alonso for that.

<edit again> and if Hamilton had given Maldonado space into the second apex then Maldonado would've had to give the place back as he went off track to complete the overtake! All in all, Hamilton was a silly boy again.


Not at all.

As you pointed out, with the established rules, Hamilton wasnt in the wrong.

I think perhaps if he had left 1 or 2 more feet, maybe they both would have clipped, no harm done.

However, how the hell is it not Maldonados fault?? He overstepped his mark, and pulled back onto the track at a right angle to the direction of it. You dont pull over the racing line, he should have braked hard, pulled back on and settled for 4th.

Hamilton could have settled for 4th but he was on the racing line, simple as - he had defended well into the corner and didnt deserve to be smashed out the race.

Glad he was however, it meant button and webber stepped up a place each for my dreamteam Laughing

Raikkonen managed a clean overtake, Maldo should have waited.


Brilliant race though, properly enjoyed it.

Even though I enjoyed alonsos racing, I was seriously hoping for tyre degradation and for Raikkonen to bring home the win, would have kept the championship even closer
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D O G
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fawbish wrote:
However, how the hell is it not Maldonados fault?? He overstepped his mark, and pulled back onto the track at a right angle to the direction of it. You dont pull over the racing line, he should have braked hard, pulled back on and settled for 4th.

Hamilton could have settled for 4th but he was on the racing line, simple as - he had defended well into the corner and didnt deserve to be smashed out the race.


It was Maldonado's fault, but Hamilton could have prevented the accident.

He was clearly going to lose the place, his rears were absolutely screwed.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
The real question is, how long before McLaren get sick of him ruining their preparation?


LOL - I think Lewis could quite easily throw enough back at their feet to afford himself the 'odd' mistake. It's not like McLaren haven't screwed up, umm, every race so far this year in one way or another, ie strategy, pit stop errors, et al.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
Fawbish wrote:
However, how the hell is it not Maldonados fault?? He overstepped his mark, and pulled back onto the track at a right angle to the direction of it. You dont pull over the racing line, he should have braked hard, pulled back on and settled for 4th.

Hamilton could have settled for 4th but he was on the racing line, simple as - he had defended well into the corner and didnt deserve to be smashed out the race.


It was Maldonado's fault, but Hamilton could have prevented the accident.

He was clearly going to lose the place, his rears were absolutely screwed.


See and this is why I say I could go either way with it. It's Hamilton's line to defend, it's a race for position, and he shouldn't have to give up his racing instinct just because it's Maldospacktard being the aggressor as he's got 'history' of using his car to punt people out the way.

But at the same time, as you say, 3rd wasn't going to happen, so take 4th and be happy with that - Hamilton himself had said earlier in the season that consistency was going to be key this year, so why not take the safe points?
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
To me it looked as though Maldonardo had plenty of room to his left.

He should have kept to the left, off the track and rejoined behind Hamilton.

Mark
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_Troy_
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The after race analysis showed the Maldonado had space on his left where he should have gone. It also showed that the second he was straddling the kerb he had no steering at all. There's even a clip of him steering and the wheels not turning.

Yes, Hamilton could have prevented it, but he shouldn't have had to at all. He was going to lose his place, but like he said afterwards, you don't give up places, it's a race after all. Maldonado was easily going to over take him, so for him to make such a brash move was pointless. Definitely think he should be given more of a punishment.

Maclaren need to sort out their pits though, they really seem to be letting Hamilton down each week. He lost 10 seconds on one of his stops! 10!

Oh and props have to be given to Alonso. I hate him, with a passion, but man he can drive.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
D O G wrote:
The real question is, how long before McLaren get sick of him ruining their preparation?


LOL - I think Lewis could quite easily throw enough back at their feet to afford himself the 'odd' mistake. It's not like McLaren haven't screwed up, umm, every race so far this year in one way or another, ie strategy, pit stop errors, et al.


True, which is a bit of a shame because then it would only be his fault. Laughing
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arry
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.yallaf1.com/2011/06/27/photos-red-bulls-hot-pool-party-in-valencia/

now now then!
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
D O G wrote:


It was Maldonado's fault, but Hamilton could have prevented the accident.


So when someone pulls out on you and you hit them, it is your fault because you could have avoided the collision by going slower?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
So when someone pulls out on you and you hit them, it is your fault because you could have avoided the collision by going slower?


No, but you're the one with a knackered bike, more expensive insurance and road rash up your arse. You can be as right as you like, but it's little compensation if you're the one who comes of worse!
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D O G
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
D O G wrote:


It was Maldonado's fault, but Hamilton could have prevented the accident.


So when someone pulls out on you and you hit them, it is your fault because you could have avoided the collision by going slower?


I think Daemonoid sums up my position accurately enough.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 07:17 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh right so racing for position on the 2nd to last lap if someone goes off the race track and wants to barge back in, you should just let them past?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Oh right so racing for position on the 2nd to last lap if someone goes off the race track and wants to barge back in, you should just let them past?


If Hamilton were given the choice again now what do you think he would go for? Crashed out or give him the position? I think anyone could see that Maldonado was coming past eventually, but Hamilton cut his nose off to spite his face.

Look at what Alonso did in Canada - he was first when his tyres went, he didn't put up much of a fight and walked away with 10 points. 10 points is more than 0, as a pro driver at the top of his game Hamilton should be taking the pragmatic approach.

Whitmarsh has now backed Hamilton's decision to defend whilst saying next time he will be encouraged not to make the same decision. I think that sums it up really.
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MinhDinh
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Only just got passed the Mcalren jack incident. MCLAREN pit stops have been terrible, almost as bad as England penalties.

I haven't seen the incident that cost Hamilton but he drives how he drives. That aggressiveness has got him to where he and it is unlucky he will change that. These speed they go at, there doesn't seem like much time to think and natural instincts take over.

My sisters boyfriend did a track day at Silverstone on a formula single seater and told me there is very little time to react and that if your speed is too slow, you end up with a lot of cornering issues. F1 drivers are professionals but they do make mistakes.

I am a Hamilton fan and love how he is very aggressive. It hasn't always been smart but he is very competitive and that has helped him also gain in fhe past.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
MinhDinh wrote:
Only just got passed the Mcalren jack incident. MCLAREN pit stops have been terrible, almost as bad as England penalties.

I haven't seen the incident that cost Hamilton but he drives how he drives. That aggressiveness has got him to where he and it is unlucky he will change that. These speed they go at, there doesn't seem like much time to think and natural instincts take over.

My sisters boyfriend did a track day at Silverstone on a formula single seater and told me there is very little time to react and that if your speed is too slow, you end up with a lot of cornering issues. F1 drivers are professionals but they do make mistakes.

I am a Hamilton fan and love how he is very aggressive. It hasn't always been smart but he is very competitive and that has helped him also gain in fhe past.


The first pit stop - first one under 3s static time for McLaren in literally as long as I can remember, certainly first time this season.

I don't think the incident itself was really anything about Hamilton being aggressive, I wouldn't describe it as aggressive driving from Lewis at all.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
MinhDinh wrote:
Only just got passed the Mcalren jack incident. MCLAREN pit stops have been terrible, almost as bad as England penalties.


Worth pointing out that their first stop was the fastest ever in F1 history. So while they had a mechanical failure there is a lot of hope going forwards...
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MinhDinh
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looking at the crash, Hamilton was simply on the line and ahead. It would be very unnatural to move a whole care length to the right.
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